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Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

nature.com

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Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#311

Post by pranau »

academic_nimrod wrote: post #225
hannob wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already do that. You can't legally eat the meat of other humans in most (all? not sure) countries. You're not allowed to buy the meat of certain animals in certain countries, due to cultural norms (dogs) or due to protection of certain species. It's an absolutely normal thing that laws regulate or forbid things that have negative effects on society.

Outlawing meat and depriving us life's finest pleasures (eating delicious, succulent meat) would have catastrophic effects on society. It would wreck havoc on low income people, obliterate all the great meat heavy cuisine of the many immigrants across the USA and Europe, and turn us into weak, dispirited, sanctimonious saps.

> turn us into weak, dispirited, sanctimonious saps.

Citation needed

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#312

Post by TheBeardKing »

the_gastropod wrote: post #301
Nyandalized wrote: post #2

I don't think people will stop consuming meat if you ask them nicely. You have to make decisions that will hurt the meat industry and make it infeasible. This would likely best be achieved through slowly dropping tax incentives, and transferring them over to alternatives so that people have something equally economical to today's meat.

Absolutely! I think you hit the nail on the head. I went to an Israeli restaurant the other day, and (I'm guessing?) all the meat was kosher (read: expensive). Their menu prices seemed to be exactly how they should be. Vegetarian options were in the ~$7 range, and meat dishes were in the $35 range. This kind of pricing still makes meat dishes accessible to anyone that wants them, but gently nudges behavior in a more…

I hate when I go to Qdoba and the same bowl with Impossible meat is $9.99, while beef or chicken is $7.99. So now I have to pay more and eat less healthy?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#313

Post by nkozyra »

corodra wrote: post #243
nkozyra wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think people will stop consuming meat if you ask them nicely. Illuminating the moral quandary of meat consumption helps. It worked for me. Nobody had to ask me nicely, they just needed to help me to think about it and be self-reflective. Even if you believe there to be ethical meat consumption (a notion I find dubious in modern life), people can reduce consumption and have a big impact. Modern commercial me…

But most people don't see a general ethical issue with eating meat. We are omnivores after all. Hell, our hunter gatherer ancestors ate more meat than we do. Though, higher quality. It's the same with seeing a wolf eat a deer. Think they care? Same with a chimp finally catching a monkey and eating it (now those are horrifying videos to see, especially since chimps love eating monkeys). Snake to a mouse. Fox to a hare…

> But most people don't see a general ethical issue with eating meat.

Again, this is in the scenario where we accept meat consumption is indisputably ethical. The way we get our meat is arguably a much bigger problem.

> But if broccoli could scream would you stop eating it?

Yes?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#314

Post by barry-cotter »

danmaz74 wrote: post #148
pikma wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would need to get a large part of the global population to do it though, say 50%. And the prices for meat would go down, so you would need to convince the other half of the population not to increase their consumption.

Meat is disproportionately consumed in western countries, so, even a change only in those countries would have a big impact. Eg, China consumes half the meat per person of the US, and India just 5%.

As far as China goes that’s purely because it’s not all at first world levels of consumption yet. In any coastal city where people are roughly as prosperous as Poles or Romanians people eat first world amounts of meat. And telling people they can’t eat meat will not garner support for the government, whether in India, China, Indonesia or any other developing nation. Not eating meat is either an ethical or a religious stance and on a global level the ethical stance is marginal. People who can afford to eat meat do, and do so regularly.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#315

Post by PunchTornado »

jnwatson wrote: post #206

If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. You’re not going to guilt people into changing their behavior. A carbon tax fixes this.

yeah, a carbon tax so that only rich people can enjoy things. how about before demanding common people change their behaviour ban private jets and yachts?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#316

Post by nkozyra »

matz1 wrote: post #267
nkozyra wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think people will stop consuming meat if you ask them nicely. Illuminating the moral quandary of meat consumption helps. It worked for me. Nobody had to ask me nicely, they just needed to help me to think about it and be self-reflective. Even if you believe there to be ethical meat consumption (a notion I find dubious in modern life), people can reduce consumption and have a big impact. Modern commercial me…

>Even if you believe there to be ethical meat consumption (a notion I find dubious in modern life Why is that dubious ? Ethics is personal. For me, consuming meat is ethical. Unless I'm forced to not eat meat then I won't stop.

> Ethics is personal

You may want to consider the broader implications of using this reasoning.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#317

Post by Pxtl »

TheBeardKing wrote: post #304
mark_l_watson wrote: post #236

At least in the USA, this could in principle be fixed by ending the corporate welfare state. Old news, but All major industries like the beef industry get huge tax breaks, free water and other giveaways at the general taxpayer’s expense. Fixing the corruption (both democratic and republican parties) in our our political would end up helping the environment a lot. That said, we have zero chance of fixing our corrupt p…

We've been trying to cut our meat consumption, but the cooking complexity is exactly my issue. We're lazy but healthy eaters, meaning our regular entrees are a meat and a couple veggie sides. We also do low carb, mainly because it's just easier to limit calorie intake that way. Most of the dinner work is usually cutting and preparing vegetables. When we cut meat, it cuts the main portion of the entree, which can some…

Yeah, as a vegetarian I can do some awesome things with lentils, but I remember the days when I could rub some spice on a pork chop and throw it on the grill and then have something boxed and starchy on the side and have a pretty decent meal.

Meanwhile, a good lentil stew is a much more involved project. Much less home-made veggie burger patties which have dozens of ingredients and elaborate preparation processes.

Going full vegan is even harder, because cheese is a pretty good shortcut to making hearty food.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#318

Post by _iyig »

Side note: most industrial fertilizer is produced from non-renewable minerals and natural gas [0]. If you want a truly sustainable food system, some amount of "organic" a.k.a. plant and animal-based fertilizer is probably necessary. We know this works, because it's how all farmland was fertilized before the mining of niter and invention of the Haber-Bosch process.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer#Production

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#319

Post by nashashmi »

We should encourage pasture aminal grazing instead of the current grazing methods. And wished this UN report mentioned that.

Otherwise it is just a liberal green leftist report sponsored by the the meatless meat industries who are encouraging this.

I see a parallel between a sudden rush of beyond meat served in restaurants and this report. Like a concerted effort at play.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#320

Post by 5A704C1N »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #300
Frondo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Canada recently and tried one of the Tim Hortons "beyond sausage" sausage, egg, and cheese sandwiches. From the "beyond meat" people. Had I not known what I was eating, I wouldn't have known it was plant-based at all. The taste and texture was, at least in fast food terms, just a really good sausage. I haven't been able to try the beyond burger Burger King is selling, but if it's on par with the beyond sausa…

Quick note: Burger King uses the Impossible Burger, not the Beyond Burger. In my opinion, the Impossible Burger isn't any better than a MorningStar Farms Grillers Prime (at significantly higher price). The Beyond Burger though is easily the best meat-free burger I've ever had. A&W and Carl's Junior are Beyond Burger joints.

You must have caught Impossible on a bad day. Prepared right, an Impossible Whopper is indistinguishable from the real thing
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