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Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

nature.com

221–230 of 577 posts

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#221

If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. You’re not going to guilt people into changing their behavior. A carbon tax fixes this.

> If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more.

I'm not willing to agree that it would reduce emissions more than ending meat consumption. It would help, however.

Like most problems, there is not just one solution. Multiple modest to moderate changes in behavior can make a big difference.

- redesign cities to include more and better public transport (less car/truck traffic)

- reduce general product consumption (less global shipping) - we all know there's a lot of worthless stuff that gets manufactured and shipped, such as the low-end products you find in Walmart which break or fail after a short period of time

- create permaculture food forests in and around cities (reducing global shipping of produce)

- eat less meat (reducing production and transportation emissions)

To put it into perspective, it's a bit like getting fit and losing weight. Yes you can radically change your diet, or you can do crossfit every day, but those narrow+deep efforts are usually very unpleasant and unsustainable (in terms of a human's ability to keep with the changes). Instead, some diet changes, some consistent exercise, some lifestyle changes (walking/biking in place of some car drives) tends to result in lasting health benefits.

> A carbon tax fixes this.

Not really. A carbon tax encourages projects like mass forest planting of monocultures. That will result in some problem down the road.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#222
post #116
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Few years back I bought some tofu sausages to try out how they taste. They tasted interesting but not like real sausages. Definitely not a good replacement. Even if I made myself eat them because of moral reasons, ignoring how they taste, many people would still avoid them. As long as meat tastes better than its alternatives, people will use it. We need to bring good meat alternatives to the masses. The theo…

TL;DR: In my opinion meat analogues will not convert meat-eaters to vegetarians, problem is that switching to vegetarian diet requires rather big cultural change on our eating traditions. I hear where are you coming from, though IMHO it's a problem with lack of knowledge/tradition/culture of producing vegetarian/vegan meals. If you would say that you're vegetarian to my grandparents, they'd imagine that you eat veget…

Thanks for this well thought out comment. It's sad that it's getting downvoted. I agree that the replacement strategy isn't going to get us anywhere. It's a novelty. It's like people going on fad diets. They'll do it for a few months, feel accomplished, and backslide into their old habits. Going plant-based is a lifestyle change, it's something to own and be proud of, just like having a healthy workout routine.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#223

If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. You’re not going to guilt people into changing their behavior. A carbon tax fixes this.

Carbon tax like you said, and also all product should be labeled with some sort of information about the carbon footprint that stems from the production and transportation of this product, so that consumers can compare products in terms of carbon footprint just like they can in terms of nutrients in food.

A challenge to get right for sure, but it could have significant positive impact.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#224

If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. You’re not going to guilt people into changing their behavior. A carbon tax fixes this.

> stopped traveling for fun

Uhm... how about stop travelling for business in the world of instant communication?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#225
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gives you the right to control what people eat?

We already do that. You can't legally eat the meat of other humans in most (all? not sure) countries. You're not allowed to buy the meat of certain animals in certain countries, due to cultural norms (dogs) or due to protection of certain species. It's an absolutely normal thing that laws regulate or forbid things that have negative effects on society.

Outlawing meat and depriving us life's finest pleasures (eating delicious, succulent meat) would have catastrophic effects on society.

It would wreck havoc on low income people, obliterate all the great meat heavy cuisine of the many immigrants across the USA and Europe, and turn us into weak, dispirited, sanctimonious saps.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#226
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to go from one extreme to the other. This is about eating "less" meat. People do not traditionally eat that much meat because meat used to be expensive and its supply limited. This is still the case in poor countries. In developed countries, people started to eat more and more meat as they got richer because we naturally like meat and because of clever marketing. We now eat too much meat, and also co…

My grandmother told me that before the second world war for a typical peasant family in Belarus the meat meant a single chicken 2-4 times in a month for the whole family. Only on big celebrations few times in a year people could afford to slaughter a pig or a caw. Even eggs were considered expensive. Milk was more available as most families had a cow. The real staple food was potato and bread. In cities meat was more…

what do you think the standard of living in balarus before the second world war was, and do you think people would accept it now in belarus let alone the the US?

Its odd to call back to 1930s eastern europe for an example of how to live. There are many arguments to make against meat etc but 1930s belarus is not one that logically follows.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#227
post #221

If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. You’re not going to guilt people into changing their behavior. A carbon tax fixes this.

> If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. I'm not willing to agree that it would reduce emissions more than ending meat consumption. It would help, however. Like most problems, there is not just one solution. Multiple modest to moderate changes in behavior can make a big difference. - redesign cities to include more and better public transport (less car/truck traff…

> A carbon tax fixes this.

Not really.

You're conflating the tax with spending the tax revenue. You don't need to spend any of the revenue on carbon sequestering projects. Just implementing a carbon tax that pushed the price of things like air travel up to the reflect the real cost would do a huge amount to reduce the amount people pollute.

If the price of a flight doubled then fewer people would fly.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#228

If everyone stopped traveling for fun, that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even more. You’re not going to guilt people into changing their behavior. A carbon tax fixes this.

I agree, but I think securitizable carbon credits make a lot more sense than a straight up tax.

Also it’s not just that can’t guilt people into changing behavior, I don’t think we should. Humanity moves forward by solving our problems not through everyone magically changing how they act.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#229
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandmother told me that before the second world war for a typical peasant family in Belarus the meat meant a single chicken 2-4 times in a month for the whole family. Only on big celebrations few times in a year people could afford to slaughter a pig or a caw. Even eggs were considered expensive. Milk was more available as most families had a cow. The real staple food was potato and bread. In cities meat was more…

Its interesting to hear anecdotal stories like these because they contradict the conventional wisdom nowadays that says you have to eat meat as protein every day - clearly that wasn't the case in prior centuries.

what was the life expectancy? what was the standard of living? trying to call back to 1930s belarus as an example to live from is crazy. It doesn't even logically follow that we should avoid meat because poor farmers in belarus didn't each much.

Where's the logical argument?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#230
post #194

This will probably get swallowed by the other 190 comments but are there good sources for how to make meat substitutes? I love to cook, and I frequently grind my own meat for burgers and sausages. I make my own jerkies too. I try to buy grass fed and pasture raised but I’m definitely not perfect since the nearest decent butcher is about twenty minutes by train. I guess the alternative would be an ask for great vegeta…

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