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Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

nature.com

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Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#161

Post by stowaway442 »

est31 wrote: post #131
trymas wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR: In my opinion meat analogues will not convert meat-eaters to vegetarians, problem is that switching to vegetarian diet requires rather big cultural change on our eating traditions. I hear where are you coming from, though IMHO it's a problem with lack of knowledge/tradition/culture of producing vegetarian/vegan meals. If you would say that you're vegetarian to my grandparents, they'd imagine that you eat veget…

> You need a completely different set of dishes to change that meat eating tradition and IMO tofu sausages, cheap soy steaks and other meat analogues will not convert meat-eaters to vegetarians (fingers crossed for Impossible meat projects to change that). This is exactly what I was reffering to. The current alternatives are not motivating enough for people to switch, but with good meat alternatives like impossible/b…

It's interesting that the fate of our existence on this planet and the future of our descendents is all about whether or not we manage to make plant matter tasty enough.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#162

Post by CommieDetector »

saagarjha wrote: post #142
jfnixon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, that means we can vote to require meat at every meal. Don't like it? Too bad, so sad, we have the right to control what you eat.

You cannot force people to eat something.

Then you can not force people _not_ to eat something.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#163

Post by CommieDetector »

dkersten wrote: post #136
CommieDetector wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gives you the right to control what people eat?

If it damages the world or society, then why not? Would you say that I have the right to eat pets? Humans? Animals (or plants) that are on the brink of extinction? There are plenty of valid reasons to restrict what people are allowed to eat.

"If it damages the world or society, then why not? "

Please open a history book.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#164

Post by C1sc0cat »

K0nserv wrote: post #81
microtonal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike cars and travel it's hard to make the argument that humans depend on access to meat so making it 700% more expensive via tax would effectively shift consumption patterns with few if any downsides. The problem is that no politician (perhaps outside green parties) wants to do this, because of the fear of becoming unpopular. We simultaneously need a shift in people's attitudes towards meat. I have been a vegetari…

This is the unfortunate truth and it's particularly bad beause the rich western countries that contribute the most to climate change will, in many instances, be the last to feel the effects. This in combination with decmoractic elections has the consequence that iniatives aimed at tackling climate change, all of which will have a negative impact on people's lives(percieved or not), will never be viable politics for a…

Actually in recent decades its rapidly developing countries like China and India that have seen massive increases in meat eating.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#165

Post by tom_mellior »

glastra wrote: post #40

How about we don't change the diet but change where the food comes from? When talking about meat and damage to the environment, the only relevant figures are the ones associated with animal feed (e.g. water consumption per kg of meat). Pastured animals, by definition, don't eat feed coming from the monoculture industrial agriculture that is depleting the soil and consuming all those resources, and which is also used…

You can't produce as much meat from pastured animals as with industrial techniques. If humanity went all-pastured, meat prices would go up, many wouldn't be able to afford as much meat as now, and we would have changed the average person's diet.

This would also create incentives to cut down forests to create more "pasture", and that would be pretty terrible.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#166

Post by perfunctory »

chrisco255 wrote: post #145
dkersten wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it damages the world or society, then why not? Would you say that I have the right to eat pets? Humans? Animals (or plants) that are on the brink of extinction? There are plenty of valid reasons to restrict what people are allowed to eat.

By pets what do you mean? Is it ethical for me to have a cat, when cats are obligate carnivores that not only have to eat meat but also independently kill billions of birds a year? Is it not okay for me to eat a chicken but it's perfectly ok to own a python or boa and feed it live mice? Cows are not killing the planet. They are one of the few things you can raise that doesn't require pesticides or chemical fertilizer…

> Cows are not killing the planet. They are one of the few things you can raise that doesn't require pesticides or chemical fertilizers.

True in theory. Not in practice. Unfortunately most beef we eat doesn't come from grass fed animals. And if we were to convert the entire industry to grassing only, we wouldn't have enough land to produce the same quantity of meat. Which would imply exactly reduced meat consumption.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#167

Post by _0w8t »

est31 wrote: post #30
Nyandalized wrote: post #2

I don't think people will stop consuming meat if you ask them nicely. You have to make decisions that will hurt the meat industry and make it infeasible. This would likely best be achieved through slowly dropping tax incentives, and transferring them over to alternatives so that people have something equally economical to today's meat.

I agree. Few years back I bought some tofu sausages to try out how they taste. They tasted interesting but not like real sausages. Definitely not a good replacement. Even if I made myself eat them because of moral reasons, ignoring how they taste, many people would still avoid them. As long as meat tastes better than its alternatives, people will use it. We need to bring good meat alternatives to the masses. The theo…

Meat taste comes mostly from salt and souses. People who tried home-made sausages or grilled meat without any of those complained that it tasted like nothing. The problem with tofu sausages is that one just cannot add that much salt as to meat without making it feel too salty.

That acquired taste can be reset if for 2-4 weeks one avoids any product with added salt or sugar. Then tofu and many other products including plain meat without any additives will taste much better.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#168

Post by hannob »

nexensis wrote: post #91
Nyandalized wrote: post #2

I don't think people will stop consuming meat if you ask them nicely. You have to make decisions that will hurt the meat industry and make it infeasible. This would likely best be achieved through slowly dropping tax incentives, and transferring them over to alternatives so that people have something equally economical to today's meat.

That's not entirely true - veganism has made massive strides in the last few years simply because more information is becoming available about the environmental, ethical and (arguably) health issues surrounding our heavy meat consumption. Millions of people are already voluntarily reducing their consumption and now virtually every restaurant in the UK has vegan options, making it easier for more people to switch. I l…

Local perception versus global reality: Meat consumption is still growing.

This can easily get clouded if you live in a place where you feel a new vegan place opens all the time. But this is very unevenly distributed. The UK is a place where vegan eating is strong, likewise Germany, Sweden and certainly a few other places. But even in very similar countries also in middle Europe - e.g. Denmark, France - vegetarianism is still very unusual.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#169

Post by inert »

Its such a shame. Such a blatant confession of incapacity.

"Would you please stop drinking and driving? Its harmful and i said please!"

Political institutions all around the world fail to do their due diligence and impose rules for stable civilizations and future generations. "So please, why dont you just do it?"

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#170

Post by kpU8efre7r »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #13
Nyandalized wrote: post #2

I don't think people will stop consuming meat if you ask them nicely. You have to make decisions that will hurt the meat industry and make it infeasible. This would likely best be achieved through slowly dropping tax incentives, and transferring them over to alternatives so that people have something equally economical to today's meat.

There is no need to go from one extreme to the other. This is about eating "less" meat. People do not traditionally eat that much meat because meat used to be expensive and its supply limited. This is still the case in poor countries. In developed countries, people started to eat more and more meat as they got richer because we naturally like meat and because of clever marketing. We now eat too much meat, and also co…

Exactly this.

I will never go vegan or vegetarian but I mostly limit meat to only dinner and in smaller portions. My grocery bill is much smaller, it's healthier, and better for the environment overall.

Pushing a full-blown switch to veganism as the only solution is not pragmatic.

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