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Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

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Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#181

Post by evanb »

monksy wrote: post #176

According to the state department: " Svalbard: The Svalbard archipelago consists of nine main islands located midway between mainland Norway and the North Pole. You need a passport to enter Svalbard. Unlike Norway’s mainland, Svalbard is not party to the Schengen Agreement and air travelers to Svalbard from Norway will depart the Schengen Zone prior to boarding. Travelers to Svalbard face unique hazards given the ext…

This assumes you get to Svalbard the traditional way--by flight from the Norwegian mainland, in which case you need a passport to transit or depart the Schengen on the mainland side. If you arrive by some other means you do not.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#182

Post by rayiner »

davvolun wrote: post #161
rayiner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dramatically overestimate how much of an economic difference there is between MD and WV: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vwpy8_glsgc/Vi5llZ9ZILI/AAAAAAAAI... . Adjusting for purchasing power, the difference in median income is just 10%. It’s like the difference between Belgium and Australia. On the flip side, there is actually quite a difference between states like New York (second poorest in the US) and Virginia. And…

> And there is a very large internal migration from states like New York to states like Virginia I don't feel particularly qualified in this area, it's an interesting question though; but, this really needs a citation. I think you're making a very strong claim here, that there is a "very large" migration from New York to Virginia -- although I have a problem with the qualifier "states like" -- what does that mean? Bl…

See: http://thecontextofthings.com/2014/04/23/people-are-leaving-.... Domestic migration is flowing from New York, LA, etc., to southern cities like Charlotte, Houston, etc., where purchasing power is higher. New York lost 1.5 million net residents to domestic migration from 2001 to 2008. (I.e. 1.5 million more people left New York for another state than left another state for New York.)

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#183

Post by grotsnot »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #118
cojxd wrote: post #4

>The Dream of Open Borders Is Real—in the High Arctic For whom is open borders a dream?

I want open borders in every country which provides free government health care so that millions of retired Americans would be able to afford to move away from America. Most of America's health care dollars pay for late in life care so this would save American insurance providers and hospitals significant amounts of money. And a lot of American retirees would be able to realize their dreams of living out their retire…

So you basically just want other governments to shoulder Americans' healthcare costs. Doesn't sound like a win for them

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#184

Post by rootusrootus »

panzagl wrote: post #179
asdfman123 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to the fact that people don't care as much about taxes as is commonly thought. They care about how much they like a city, or the general culture, or how close they are to mountains or the ocean. Tax is belabored because it's so ideological, like when the Kansas governor claimed cutting taxes would bring a rush of new industries into Kansas (it didn't). I know though when I chose to move from Tex…

Retirees care.

That may be somewhat true, but I know a lot of retirees in Portland that could easily relocate. Also I'm not positive in the case of Oregon how much the income tax really applies to retirees.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#185

Post by HillaryBriss »

coldtea wrote: post #149
HillaryBriss wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or compare Los Angeles to Beverly Hills. These two cities share a border. Median incomes are way, way higher in Beverly Hills. And LA's poor millions are free to crowd right into to Beverly Hills and just start grabbing up some of that wealth. But it barely happens at all. The two populations are not merging nearly as much as the shared border would predict.

> And LA's poor millions are free to crowd right into to Beverly Hills and just start grabbing up some of that wealth. Yeah, not really free. They can't pay rent in Beverly Hills, they can't afford to shop at Beverly Hills shops, they can't even be walking around looking poor without harassment (especially if also black/latino), they don't have access to closed communities, and so on...

> They can't pay rent in Beverly Hills

sure they can: eight or ten people can pool resources and rent a one bedroom apartment. happens all the time in other cities.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#186

Post by sm4rk0 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #35

I think the degree to which open borders are a reality within the U.S. is under-appreciated. As a reminder, U.S. states are sovereign entities with their own criminal laws, tax regimes, educational systems, property and contract rights, civil rights, economic growth, industries, natural resources, etc. In some cases their laws are pre-empted by U.S. federal law, but there remains quite a bit of diversity. Despite thi…

But the U.S. is still one country.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#187

Post by cpp4life »

snowwrestler wrote: post #35

I think the degree to which open borders are a reality within the U.S. is under-appreciated. As a reminder, U.S. states are sovereign entities with their own criminal laws, tax regimes, educational systems, property and contract rights, civil rights, economic growth, industries, natural resources, etc. In some cases their laws are pre-empted by U.S. federal law, but there remains quite a bit of diversity. Despite thi…

MD to WV is nothing like the difference between Mexico or Guatemala to the US.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#188

Post by HillaryBriss »

grotsnot wrote: post #183
HillaryBriss wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want open borders in every country which provides free government health care so that millions of retired Americans would be able to afford to move away from America. Most of America's health care dollars pay for late in life care so this would save American insurance providers and hospitals significant amounts of money. And a lot of American retirees would be able to realize their dreams of living out their retire…

So you basically just want other governments to shoulder Americans' healthcare costs. Doesn't sound like a win for them

Well, not only that. I also want American retirees to benefit from enjoying their golden years in a fascinating new location full of scenic wonders, interesting people, excellent cuisine, music, language, art, architecture and other culture. I mean, imagine what these people would have to face otherwise: the dismal, frozen landscape of a city like Fargo or Cleveland, or the blazing hellscape of a city like Mojave, California. That would just suck for them.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#189

Post by wmil »

From another article: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/10/world/europe/a-harsh-clim...

"The key to Svalbard’s status as probably Europe’s closest thing to a crime-free society, according to the governor, is that unemployment is in effect illegal. “If you don’t have a job, you can’t live here,” Mr. Ingero said, noting that the jobless are swiftly deported. Retirees are sent away, too, unless they can prove they have sufficient means to support themselves."

Basically Svalbard can have relatively open borders because it's unappealing and they are very very aggressive about deportations.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#190

Post by kmlx »

DVassallo wrote: post #142
dmihal wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Bulgaria is part of the EU, it's not part of the Schengen zone, meaning they don't have truly "open borders".

There's full freedom of movement, so it's an open border. The Schengen zone is no border.

it’s not an “open border”. on the contrary. there are actual physical borders between schengen countries and the rest of the eu. whenever you enter/exit schengen you have to pass border control.
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