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Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#231

Post by ilaksh »

jngreenlee wrote: post #127
coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

"In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exploitative jobs" Sure, but neither you or I get to decide that qualification. Only the person doing the job does. We don't really know what fits their lives or what options they have. I don't like gig stuff/sharing economy (or the big 'unicorns' associated with it) either...but it is "another option" for many people that wouldn't have one, esp. lower skill…

A large number of Uber drivers in many countries including the US are not particularly young or old and are white and have skills or professional careers.

The reason they drive for Uber is not a lack of skill. It's because they ran out of money and needed a job. Often having skills doesn't translate into having a good job. Good jobs are a limited resource per area and field.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#232

Post by eloff »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #186
eloff wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, it's better to do something as in a startup, than to complain about public policy. When your system is broken, try to fix it, when that fails, workaround it.

But... it's an extremely specific viewpoint that Startup / Technology solution is the way to fix broken system. For vast majority of people, the viewpoint would be that elected leaders making the "correct" decisions/rules (whatever we decide those are) is the actual long-term, proper fix. Technology is technology, it's a tool; and societal norms, rules, and regulations guide or decide how we use those tools.

In a perfect world sure. But doing nothing while waiting for a perfect world is far worse than fixing the problem at the wrong level.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#233

Post by jacquesm »

jonknee wrote: post #47
rainyMammoth wrote: post #8

Uber and lyft are both on the way down. The price at which they need to operate to be profitable is not a price that most americans are ready to pay. As simple as that. For now they delay this reality by subsidizing rides in order to generate business. In some cities like San Francisco, most incentives were removed and among my friends we all stopped using Uber (unless we really have to). It simply became way too exp…

I think it's more the massive amount of spending they do with little to nothing to show for it. They spent $457m last year on autonomous and flying cars with $0 in revenue from those projects. Maybe that will work out, but I bet every penny was ultimately wasted. Not spending billions a year on R&D certainly makes the financials look nicer. It might not attract as nice of a multiple, but it's not the ride prices that…

> They spent $457m last year on autonomous and flying cars with $0 in revenue from those projects.

I sincerely hope they weren't expecting any revenue from those for the next decade or two. Anything else would be delusional.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#234

Post by jimbokun »

coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

I think the only way to make it viable is paired with Universal Basic Income, so the gig worker has a floor for their income.

Maybe UBI won't provide a livable income, but might enable "gig workers" to survive with a dignified standard of living.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#235

Post by arrozconcosas »

chiefgeek wrote: post #143
arrozconcosas wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is the total cost of owning a car in Chicago? Including gas, parking, insurance, maintenance and consumables, depreciation/lease, etc?

A lot. I live just outside the city limit. 2015 VW Golf Wagon. Payment is only $260/month because I bought it used, got a decent amount for my trade in, and put extra down. Insurance $100/month. Gas, tolls, taxes, misc parking $200/month. Parking at my apartment is included in lease but can easily be $200-400 depending on where in the city you are. I'm a freelancer. As such I don't pay for monthly parking in the city…

So $860 or so per month to own a car. “Included in your lease” doesn’t mean you don’t pay for it by the way.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#236

Post by scarejunba »

xyzzyz wrote: post #180
lacker wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the part where Uber let you get a cab through an app rather than hoping a taxi was driving by and waving your hands at them. It really is a far, far better product when you can get a cab wherever you want, instead of just in a few areas.

Did you know that in most places where cab are operating, you could order a cab to pick you up at your house by calling a cab company and talking to the operator? Flagging down a cab as it drives by is a New York City thing.

Oh you could order the cab. That you could do. Whether you'd get a cab, now that's a different thing.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#237

Post by toasterlovin »

bsder wrote: post #174
toasterlovin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a reason nobody cares about the taxi industry before ride sharing: it was small because it was too expensive for most people to use outside of special circumstances.

I disagree. Expense was never really an issue for me. My issue was always summoning the taxi . I was generally operating in secondary markets like Las Vegas off-strip, San Diego, or Pittsburgh. You couldn't schedule your trip to the airport because you never knew when the stupid taxi would show up. While I hate many things about Uber/Lyft/ridesharing, they changed the customer service expectation of the whole field.…

You have to realize how small the group of people is who can regularly afford to hire other people to perform services for them (which is what a taxi is). You're in that group, so the problem for you is convenience of hailing. But most people just can't afford to hire others to perform services for them on a regular basis. And that will never change, since it's inherent to the distribution of incomes in the population.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#238

Post by windexh8er »

eanzenberg wrote: post #168
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this misses something crucial to how most of these arrangements work: the worker is unable to put value on the gig. That is the real asymmetry. The gig worker's car wears down, requires gas, oil changes, and gets beat up by the road, but from his perspective he sees $25. Do you think Uber would even try to estimate that number?! (which they almost certainly could). Its essentially capitalization on a huge…

What happened to personal responsibility? Is that out the window as well? Or do we need intervention, similar to how parents point their kids in the proper direction to go?

Personal responsibility works both ways. Just because Uber is an organization doesn't mean they shouldn't be beholden to an ethical, and equal, working arrangement that is fair to both parties. The difference here is, as others have noted, Uber has entire departments devoted to maximizing their profits with little to no care for the driver. It's clear Uber always only wanted human drivers as a way to bootstrap development into a completely driverless service. What Uber is failing on is spreading themselves too thin. They're focused on both global expansion to compete with rivals AND sinking exorbitant capital into R&D for things that don't seem to be playing out as fast as they'd like. I said it in a thread before Uber went IPO but nobody should have expected the street to be good to Uber. I realize this was as a way for them to get to the next level, but I believe history will reflect poorly on Uber as lesson learned in what was a great idea that turned into a greedy model that eventually backfired. I only hope ride-sharing lives on in a way that is better positioned to fund the driver. I think it's clear there's a model that supports the back end services with the bulk of the revenue going to the driver that is sustainable.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#239

Post by refurb »

ttul wrote: post #82
Finbarr wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to commute from San Mateo to San Francisco on Uber Pool for ~$10 each way. Same service is >$20 now.

That’s a distance of 32km. Assuming a fully loaded $0.50 per km cost to operate a private vehicle, the cost should be $16.00 each way assuming that you are the driver. By charging $4.00 more than the cost, you’re freeing yourself up to do other things during that time. Is your time really not worth $4.00?

Fully loaded cost is assumed to be $0.55 (or something close) by the IRS. That's $0.33 per km or $10.56 for his trip, saving $10 (or $20 return) each day.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#240

Post by davinic »

mpweiher wrote: post #165
lacker wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the part where Uber let you get a cab through an app rather than hoping a taxi was driving by and waving your hands at them. It really is a far, far better product when you can get a cab wherever you want, instead of just in a few areas.

Is that really the case in the US? At least in Germany, my standard way of getting a cab (wherever I want) was calling one of the dispatch centres. Taxi-hailing apps made this slightly more convenient, and displaying the cab's route to you removed some stress, but it didn't fundamentally alter the service. And Uber really doesn't add any value except for undercutting prices by subsidising the rides via investors and…

In my area of the US, calling dispatch would get you a ride only when things are not busy whatsoever. Once there is any level of demand, the service will send the call to the fleet but no one is required to fulfill it.
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