Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#131

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:03 PM UTC

bluetidepro wrote: post #50

izzydata wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems more expensive than owning a car. Assuming 5 workdays a week and 2 rides per day then that is 40 rides a month on average which could be anywhere from $360 to $480 a month.

You also have to factor in gas, renting a parking space for the car at home AND at work, taxes, insurance, convenience, etc. It's one of those things like renting. Yeah, in the long run, purely financially, buying would probably be cheaper, but a lot more factors go into it in real life that doesn't make it as black and white. For me, not owning a car is still much better overall, currently. Also, as I mentioned in a…

[deleted]

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#132

Post by lacker » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #75

Uber emerged into the market as a disruptor in the absolute worst sense of the world - it was challenging an entrenched industry with low efficiency (cab companies make ungodly amounts of money in some markets) but it did so by playing by a different set of rules - skirting both the disingenuous regulations put in to protect cab companies' profit and those in place for the safety of the general public. Even disregard…

You are missing the part where Uber let you get a cab through an app rather than hoping a taxi was driving by and waving your hands at them. It really is a far, far better product when you can get a cab wherever you want, instead of just in a few areas.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#133

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

jngreenlee wrote: post #127

coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

"In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exploitative jobs" Sure, but neither you or I get to decide that qualification. Only the person doing the job does. We don't really know what fits their lives or what options they have. I don't like gig stuff/sharing economy (or the big 'unicorns' associated with it) either...but it is "another option" for many people that wouldn't have one, esp. lower skill…

It's time to stop assuming startups are the solution to poor public policy. This is a thread topic in itself, but I cannot let the assertion stand ("any job is better than no job, what are you going to do about it?").

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#134

Post by kickopotomus » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #47

rainyMammoth wrote: post #8

Uber and lyft are both on the way down. The price at which they need to operate to be profitable is not a price that most americans are ready to pay. As simple as that. For now they delay this reality by subsidizing rides in order to generate business. In some cities like San Francisco, most incentives were removed and among my friends we all stopped using Uber (unless we really have to). It simply became way too exp…

I think it's more the massive amount of spending they do with little to nothing to show for it. They spent $457m last year on autonomous and flying cars with $0 in revenue from those projects. Maybe that will work out, but I bet every penny was ultimately wasted. Not spending billions a year on R&D certainly makes the financials look nicer. It might not attract as nice of a multiple, but it's not the ride prices that…

R&D is the only way that they survive in the long term. Uber's entire plan is just to keep hemorrhaging money until autonomous vehicles come online. They just did not expect that to be as hard of a problem as it has turned out to be.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#135

Post by vkou » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #79

izzydata wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems more expensive than owning a car. Assuming 5 workdays a week and 2 rides per day then that is 40 rides a month on average which could be anywhere from $360 to $480 a month.

Using Edmunds' True Cost to Own calculator, A 2014 Honda Civic would cost about 5k per year or $416/Mo. If you don't get free parking at work or home or if you have to pay tolls, that cost could increase significantly. A parking spot at a condo could rent for $200-$400/Mo. Parking downtown could be $12-$20 per day. That daily Uber ride sounds like a deal.

> That daily Uber ride sounds like a deal.

... for someone living in a bubble completely disconnected from the planet Earth, where they think that a $400/mo parking spot is 'normal'.

Sure, there's a few million people like you out there. Not enough to make Uber break even, though.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#136

Post by nradov » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #112

TuringNYC wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider pool rides -- which were never part of the traditional offerings. Pool rides from Uber/Lyft lowered cost while expanding the market. Consider all the places where you needed a taxi but wouldnt know how to hail one -- Uber/Lyft expanded the market here. I was recently in Taiwan and needed a ride, but could not describe the address to a driver who did not speak English. Uber to the rescue -- again the market g…

Uber/Lyft are also great when you can expense your trips. Not having to deal with (local) cash or a constantly “broken” credit card machine are also pluses.

Uber and Lyft can now feed receipts directly into corporate expense reporting systems which is a major time saver for frequent business travelers.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#137

Post by dcchambers » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

Oof. This doesn't look good no matter how you shake it. I wonder how long the investors go on before saying "enough is enough."

I don't have a horse in this race, but if Uber/Lyft fail there are going to be substantial societal repercussions. Admit it or not, they have disrupted the transportation industry significantly.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#138

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

lacker wrote: post #128

coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

To me your two sentiments seem opposed to each other. If Uber is struggling financially, they will be forced to squeeze their drivers harder, and the drivers will end up with an even worse deal than they have now. So rooting for Uber to lose money is kind of like rooting for a bunch of close-to-minimum-wage workers to make less money. I guess it’s possible that Uber does so badly financially, they cease to exist. I j…

How is Lyft doing compared to Uber? To me, Lyft always had a more sane approach to growth while everything about Uber's corporate just gave me the willies. If Uber went away, I think the world would be a better place. I would feel bad about the drivers, but most of them are driving for multiple people anyways already.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#139

Post by eloff » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #133

jngreenlee wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exploitative jobs" Sure, but neither you or I get to decide that qualification. Only the person doing the job does. We don't really know what fits their lives or what options they have. I don't like gig stuff/sharing economy (or the big 'unicorns' associated with it) either...but it is "another option" for many people that wouldn't have one, esp. lower skill…

It's time to stop assuming startups are the solution to poor public policy. This is a thread topic in itself, but I cannot let the assertion stand ("any job is better than no job, what are you going to do about it?").

On the contrary, it's better to do something as in a startup, than to complain about public policy. When your system is broken, try to fix it, when that fails, workaround it.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#140

Post by tempsy » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

The gig economy isn’t going anywhere, so eliminating an option isn’t helpful. Much rather see legislation that gives these workers more protections than a 1099 worker gets today.