Apple's market cap tops $300 billion • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's market cap tops $300 billion

#21

Post by xenophanes » Mon, Jan 03, 2011, 7:19 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #20

xenophanes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of their "long term securities" are actually short term by any reasonable meaning of the word. It's just a technical terminology thing for filings that doesn't mean what you assume it means. They have been north of 40 billion for a while. The relevant thing is how much is liquid fast enough to use it for what they want to use it for. For that we should listen to Apple telling us directly (which they have repeate…

> For that we should listen to Apple telling us directly (which they have repeatedly done), not just check some field on their govt filings. Between trusting a company on what they claim and what they actually report, I'd go with what they report. That's what's legally binding. Not that the final result is much different, cash isn't an obstacle in whatever Apple wants to do (and hasn't been in quite some time).

You aren't listening. You're taking a field on a report which means X rather than Apple's statement about their Y. They are NOT THE SAME THING. You're simply looking up the WRONG STATISTIC from an official source and saying it trumps A DIFFERENT STATISTIC from another source.

Financial reports use phrases that sound like common sense things but actually have precisely defined meanings that are not equivalent to what they sound like they mean. Basically it's excluding a great deal of Apple's liquid assets because they don't fall under a specific definition.

Re: Apple's market cap tops $300 billion

#22

Post by jonhendry » Mon, Jan 03, 2011, 7:20 PM UTC

kmfrk wrote: post #10

protomyth wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've said on various finance calls that they want it available to make some large acquisitions and do the big parts contracts.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I just recall reading articles that made it sound like executives or board members were tearing their hair because of it. Must have been the journalists' mistake.

Probably analysts or their ilk tearing their hair out.

For Apple, it's probably quite advantageous to be able to essentially pay cash up front for next year's supply of a critical component, pay a partner to build a new plant, etc.

At least Apple isn't throwing their money away in stock buybacks like Ballmer.

Re: Apple's market cap tops $300 billion

#23

Post by protomyth » Mon, Jan 03, 2011, 7:52 PM UTC

jonhendry wrote: post #22

kmfrk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I just recall reading articles that made it sound like executives or board members were tearing their hair because of it. Must have been the journalists' mistake.

Probably analysts or their ilk tearing their hair out. For Apple, it's probably quite advantageous to be able to essentially pay cash up front for next year's supply of a critical component, pay a partner to build a new plant, etc. At least Apple isn't throwing their money away in stock buybacks like Ballmer.

It does make it hard for their competition when Apple is able to buy a huge set (sometimes "all available production") of components at a reduced price.

I am expecting an iPad price drop on the next version or an iPhone strategy (cheaper old bottom, new bottom, new top). This money allows for the iPod strategy to repeat with the iPad.

Re: Apple's market cap tops $300 billion

#24

Post by revorad » Mon, Jan 03, 2011, 8:43 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #16

eddieplan9 wrote: post #13

Irrelevant, but do you think Facebook is worth 1/6 of Apple?

Paraphrasing Joel Spolsky, every time Facebook figures out a way to make 10 additional pennies from each of its users, it adds a recurring $50MM income to its cash flow. These are apples/oranges comparisons, but Facebook is worth a lot.

Let's do some math based on numbers usually reported:

total users 600,000,000

daily visitors 300,000,000

annual revenue $2,000,000,000

average daily revenue $5,479,452

average daily revenue per visitor $0.02

So, unless I've made some serious order of magnitude error, on average they make 2 cents per visitor everyday. Maybe they can make a lot more than 10 additional cents per user per year.

Re: Apple's market cap tops $300 billion

#25

Post by radicaldreamer » Mon, Jan 03, 2011, 9:29 PM UTC

jsm386 wrote: post #14

steveklabnik wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the joke was that Online Services pretty much burned up all of their extra money.

I got the joke. Just pointing out that MSFT did distribute a lot of the cash, which is something that people have started to mention as something Apple might be pressured to do by shareholders.

Steve has said that Apple intends to start acquiring more companies, larger plays rather than small talent acquisitions.

Re: Apple's market cap tops $300 billion

#26

Post by jond2062 » Mon, Jan 03, 2011, 9:55 PM UTC

xenophanes wrote: post #21

jonknee wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For that we should listen to Apple telling us directly (which they have repeatedly done), not just check some field on their govt filings. Between trusting a company on what they claim and what they actually report, I'd go with what they report. That's what's legally binding. Not that the final result is much different, cash isn't an obstacle in whatever Apple wants to do (and hasn't been in quite some time).

You aren't listening. You're taking a field on a report which means X rather than Apple's statement about their Y. They are NOT THE SAME THING. You're simply looking up the WRONG STATISTIC from an official source and saying it trumps A DIFFERENT STATISTIC from another source. Financial reports use phrases that sound like common sense things but actually have precisely defined meanings that are not equivalent to what…

No sense in arguing over something that is easily accessible (see Note 2 to the financial statements): http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/00011931251023...

Total cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities as of 9/25/2010 = $51.011 billion.

Re: Apple's market cap tops $300 billion

#27

Post by sbisker » Mon, Jan 03, 2011, 10:39 PM UTC

kmfrk wrote: post #2

Do Apple still have the problem of not knowing what to do with all their money? I recall they had an absurd amount of money lying around that they needed to invest to get some decent returns on.

I'm not sure what they'd need the higher returns for; it's not like their investors are clamoring for higher dividends. It wouldn't shock me if Apple's policy of not paying cash dividends (in place since 1995) remains only to spite Michael Dell - but it seems unlikely that the policy will change any time soon, and investors seem fine with that.

Given that, it's probably in their best interest to keep most of it fairly liquid so they can move on product ideas and acquisitions.