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Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

purewatercraft.com

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Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#31

Post by wahern »

softgrow wrote: post #14

Its not just boats going electric with positive results. Electric chainsaws starting to appear on trial near me for emergency services dealing with fallen trees. Much less noise, no smell (two stroke) and recharges itself on the truck. Just need someone to invent a self cleaning and sharpening one :)

I use a handheld cordless circular saw--Makita 6 1/2" 18V brushless. These types of saws are in their 3rd or 4th generation. 6 1/2" isn't very big, but there are larger ones with 36V packs. I can't imagine the corded, handheld circular saw market lasting much longer. I know they're much more expensive (~3x excluding battery), but cordless is infinitely more convenient.

Cordless chainsaws have been out for awhile, too, though perhaps until recently they lacked the necessary power and duration for professional work.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#32

Post by Retric »

ajross wrote: post #25

What this article is really saying is "Two stroke engines are outrageously nasty". Which we knew. They really are dozens of times worse for immediate pollutants (soot/particulates, hydrocarbons, NOx) than a routine car engine and catalytic converter. And they're significantly less efficient, so even their CO2 output is quite a bit higher than a gas engine of the same power. But they're a tiny market and no one has bo…

Many types of pollution are also less impactful over the middle of the ocean. Acid rain and smog for example simply get diluted into nothingness under the ocean.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#33

Post by driverdan »

Accujack wrote: post #20
URSpider94 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Torqueedo do offer a range of outboard and inboard motors that can be retrofitted into existing boats. https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/products/inboards

Only for tiny boats, though, and they're quite expensive. My boat needs two 150kW plus engines to move at speed. I might be able to get by at displacement speed with two 50kW engines, but something that like isn't available, and neither is the needed battery pack (Li-Ion, lead is too heavy to work).

If you can afford a boat with twin 200HP motors you can afford to retrofit it with electric.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#34

Post by arthurbrown »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #28
arthurbrown wrote: post #27

Electric cars don't reduce emissions from tyre and brake wear. These particles make up a huge amount of air pollution at a size small enough to cause health issues. Once they settle, they are swept into waterways and form the majority of our microplastic problem. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135223101... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/22/tyres-an...

What is the relevance to the article? I skim read it, was there a part to do with tyre wear I missed?

It's great that they're getting reductions of this magnitude for watercraft, this should absolutely continue.

But it is damning for electric cars. The tailpipe emissions (measured in this article) that are reduced by going electric are marginal in comparison, and the other emissions are still entirely present.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#36

Post by toddmorey »

jmpman wrote: post #30
arthurbrown wrote: post #27

Electric cars don't reduce emissions from tyre and brake wear. These particles make up a huge amount of air pollution at a size small enough to cause health issues. Once they settle, they are swept into waterways and form the majority of our microplastic problem. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135223101... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/22/tyres-an...

Brakes on Tesla are said to last twice as long or more. That would be a direct reduction in brake dust. Even with my Model 3 being floored from every stoplight since I’ve bought it, I’ve yet to hear the tires chirp. Suspect the tire wear is less than a comparable gas car due to the better traction control, and the harder tread in pursuit of lower rolling resistance.

Well that and the regenerative braking.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#37

Post by northwest65 »

jmpman wrote: post #30
arthurbrown wrote: post #27

Electric cars don't reduce emissions from tyre and brake wear. These particles make up a huge amount of air pollution at a size small enough to cause health issues. Once they settle, they are swept into waterways and form the majority of our microplastic problem. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135223101... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/22/tyres-an...

Brakes on Tesla are said to last twice as long or more. That would be a direct reduction in brake dust. Even with my Model 3 being floored from every stoplight since I’ve bought it, I’ve yet to hear the tires chirp. Suspect the tire wear is less than a comparable gas car due to the better traction control, and the harder tread in pursuit of lower rolling resistance.

All tyres are in a state of slip when you are accelerating or braking, it's unavoidable.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#38

Post by jimmaswell »

ajross wrote: post #25

What this article is really saying is "Two stroke engines are outrageously nasty". Which we knew. They really are dozens of times worse for immediate pollutants (soot/particulates, hydrocarbons, NOx) than a routine car engine and catalytic converter. And they're significantly less efficient, so even their CO2 output is quite a bit higher than a gas engine of the same power. But they're a tiny market and no one has bo…

Is 2 stroke really that common for personal-use boats? I've only heard of them running on 93 gas, which is all I see sold at marinas, no oil to mix in.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#39

Post by sephamorr »

arthurbrown wrote: post #27

Electric cars don't reduce emissions from tyre and brake wear. These particles make up a huge amount of air pollution at a size small enough to cause health issues. Once they settle, they are swept into waterways and form the majority of our microplastic problem. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135223101... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/22/tyres-an...

Regenerative braking certainly is reduced by EV's; a Tesla may never replace its brakes during its lifetime. Reading the paper, the dominant source of PM2.5/PM10 is resuspension of dust already on the road, rather than tires or brakes.

Re: Reducing pollution from boats by switching to electric motors

#40

Post by rgbrenner »

RickJWagner wrote: post #9

Maybe for commercial boats that are often in use. I live where there are quite a few sport fishermen, many have bass boats. But even the hardcore enthusiasts might go out a day or two a week, for a total of maybe 10 hours. The vast majority probably put less than 100 hours a year on the boats. So..... maybe big reduction in emissions, but only for a short while. The cars don't make the same reduction, but they're in…

From the article: Imagine the more mainstream boats, like bass boats, that can use 20-30 gallons of gas in a day,

So taking your minimum... 100 hours a year, at 10 hours/day.. that's 10 days * 30 gallons = 300 gallons/year.

A car averaging 30mpg, would use 300 gallons to travel 9000 miles. The average car travels 13500m/year.. so that's equivalent to 2/3rds of a car co2.

It gets worse for your hardcore enthusiasts... day or two a week.. so 50-100 days or 1500 to 3000 gallons/year. That's equivalent to 45,000-90,000 mi/year.. or 3-6 cars worth of co2.

If you have better numbers, then please provide them.. but it doesn't look like it's a co2 savings just for "commercial boats that are often in use"

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