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Why is modern web development so complicated?

vrk.dev

41–50 of 731 posts

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#41
I'm not sure if it's that complicated. I feel like you can do so much more with less these days.

For personal projects, React on Rails (+ Redux) has been a very productive setup. Once you get over the learning hump of how to set up a project it's basically the same thing over and over again.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#42
post #2

I don't know, but I do know I would rather fix a race condition on a multithreaded application than figure out how flexbox works or even understand all the different parts of the DOM.

Might that be simply because you are more interested in the one thing than the other? I can't come up with any objective measure of complexity that could show flexbox as being more complex than multithreading.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#43
I think the default should be: Don't use any JavaScript if you don't have to. And if you have to, use it responsibly.

Recommended reading:

- "Responsible JavaScript: Part I" by Jeremy Wagner (https://alistapart.com/article/responsible-javascript-part-1...)

- "A JavaScript-Free Frontend" by Matt Reyer (https://dev.to/winduptoy/a-javascript-free-frontend-2d3e)

Disclaimer: I'm from Germany, but have a 6-y/o Android phone and live in a rural area with poor EDGE connectivity (~50kb/s). Most "modern" websites don't load/work for me.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#44

It's complicated because the bar in terms of user experience went up (or so they say) and now everyone wants a SPA. Because of this you now have a generation of devs that only knows how to build SPA. I'm actually thinking to move some stuff from Django to Gatsby/React setup just because everyone knows React, and a lot of our new devs don't know Django/Python.

"Everyone wants a SPA" is such bullshit. GitHub used to just load for a hundred milliseconds and then show me everything I needed; now it loads for a hundred milliseconds and shows me a spinner while it does another roundtrip for some javascript, then parses and executes that giant truckload of code, then does _another_ roundtrip to get the JSON or whatever describing the data I actually want to see, then executes its boatload of javascript to update the DOM. Reddit is the exact same story; in the time it used to take to show the content, it now manages to load a spinner. Facebook also just spends the first few hundred milliseconds loading loading indicators. YouTube too.

Browsers are awesome at rendering HTML. They render each element the instant just the necessary bytes have crossed the wire. Browsers can't help you if you need to first load the HTML, then load the scripts, then load the complete giant JSON blob from your API, then add the elements to the DOM.

I'm in Norway, with high ping to the US. My ISP isn't the most reliable all the time. That nice server you have 0.01ms ping to, where you can't notice the difference a few extra roundtrips makes? Well, each roundtrip might take an extra few seconds for me.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#45
post #19

This is a wonderful and helpful article. A similar post that's really helped me is "What's in a Production Web Application?" by Stephen Mann: https://stephenmann.io/post/whats-in-a-production-web-applic... The insane number of tools and processes was the motivator behind Hackterms ( https://www.hackterms.com ) - the Urban Dictionary for programming terms, and a sort or modern Jargon File. We're now at ~1200 definitio…

Very timely. As a backend dev I'd not come across the 'SPA' acronym used in the comments here. I wasn't even going to bother searching for it because swirly water in tubs. Now I know.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#46
post #37
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we’ve done a great job of convincing each other within our tech bubble than everyone wants a SPA. Not sure the general public cares for our enthusiasm though.

Everyone(well almost) wants a SPA or at the very least non reloading pages. No one wants to reload the page with every action they perform or if only a part of the area on screen needed to be updated and the page was reloaded anyways.

Yet, here we are at HN.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#47

Because web developers have massive a chip on their shoulder about not being """real""" developers. So now we have meme frameworks and transpilers and hysterical build toolchains all for a platform for sharing documents.

Sad that you're voted down. I'm a developer and I agree with the sentiment. Web browsers are being used as a run time.

And we've been using them that way for a long time. The reason is it's so simple to deploy an app, no more developing cross-platform apps for Windows, OS X and Linux along with installers for them. I remember working on simple apps where the installation and deployment took longer than developing the app itself!

HTML/JavaScript isn't the best way to develop an app, but it's good enough and you can develop very good apps with it.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#48
Modern web development is so complicated because we fantasize that a nodejs frontend and backend will make everything better. It's like my product is better because it has more integration.

I still stick with Ruby on Rails stack. It has a bunch of good practices and patterns built up over the years.

On the good side, I set up a static Jekyll site using Github Pages. It comes with SSL from letsencrypt. I got to run my website for free without much setup. I assume I don't have to worry about scaling it either. No server, no nginx, no SSL config. It's amazing!

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#49

It doesn't have to be complicated, if you get support from above. A few weeks ago I launched a new web site for a health care company. HTML, PHP, CSS, and MySQL. No frameworks. No javascript. No garbage. It replaced a site that was a mess of javascript libraries on top of frameworks on top of a half dozen jquery version and on and on and on. The company administrators, doctors, practitioners, etc... are so happy with…

Damn, you broke into my top-secret consulting role ;)

I completely agree with all of this. There is probably a billion-dollar market out there for rewriting garbage business apps that were developed using the hipster tech flavor of the week.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#50

It's complicated because the bar in terms of user experience went up (or so they say) and now everyone wants a SPA. Because of this you now have a generation of devs that only knows how to build SPA. I'm actually thinking to move some stuff from Django to Gatsby/React setup just because everyone knows React, and a lot of our new devs don't know Django/Python.

Serious question: Why not have them learn Django/Python?

It's not that difficult if you're a decent programmer, and if they're not then why hire them?

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