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Wine on Windows 10

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Re: Wine on Windows 10

#121

Post by jeroenhd »

monocasa wrote: post #117
jeroenhd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope those scada systems aren't running on regular Windows. If they are, they should be running on Win10 LTSB on 32-bit so they should keep working till at least 2025 if XP's level of compatibility was good enough to run them. If they can't be run on that, there's still MS-DOS licenses being sold and FreeDOS might also serve them in a pinch. If a system is not maintained for long enough that it's still running in c…

What if the manufacturer doesn't exist anymore?

In that case you either were aware of the risk of your device breaking down in the future and have started looking into migrations or workarounds the moment the news hit, you took the risk that didn't happen and now have to deal with the consequences or you just didn't plan ahead enough.

Just keep running the older version of Windows that worked with the device. Add a couple of layers of configurations, firewalls, VPNs, traffic monitoring and whatnot inbetween to reduce the risk and don't connect the device to the internet. Your solar panel farm doesn't need to access Gmail or run Windows 10.

Your obscure SCADA device is your responsibility. The switchover to 32bit had been announced 20 years ago and the switchover to 64bit 10 years ago.

Also, if the manufacturer doesn't exist anymore, where are you going to source replacement parts?

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#122

Post by davidgerard »

davidgerard wrote: post #43

OP here! Someone commented with how to make i386 work: https://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/607714.html?thread=831766... not just qemu-user, but telling it the magic numbers for binfmt to work I'll give it a spin when I get home this evening. ENCARTA 97 SHALL RIDE AGAIN, maybe

Thanks to my anonymous commenter, we have a route to 32-bit:

sudo apt install qemu-user-static

sudo update-binfmts --install i386 /usr/bin/qemu-i386-static --magic '\x7fELF\x01\x01\x01\x03\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x03\x00\x03\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00' --mask '\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xfc\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xf8\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff'

sudo service binfmt-support start

And now we can do:

> fun@DESKTOP-7F6DU8P:~$ wine --version

> wine-3.0 (Ubuntu 3.0-1ubuntu1)

Encarta 97 doesn't install, though:

> fun@DESKTOP-7F6DU8P:/mnt/e$ wine SETUP.EXE

> wine: Unhandled page fault on read access to 0xffffffff at address 0x11df:0x00002c11 (thread 0011), starting debugger...

> 0011:err:seh:start_debugger Couldn't start debugger ("winedbg --auto 15 108") (2)

> Read the Wine Developers Guide on how to set up winedbg or another debugger

I'll leave that bit to someone who knows what they're doing.

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#124

Post by bootlooped »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #114

If MS is now serious about cross-platform compatibility (and they have been moving in that direction), they should consider building a bridge over the filesystem divide as well. One or more of these would be useful: - Shipping a ext4 filesystem driver for Windows. - Contributing to exfat/ntfs drivers for Linux/Mac OS. Both would be even better.

Allegedly WSL2 allows you to access things in the WSL file system from plain Windows programs. In 5 minutes of experimenting I could not get a JetBrains IDE to work on a project stored in the WSL filesystem. You can at least use Windows explorer now though.

I use WSL just about every day and I'm very optimistic about its future.

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#125

Post by sieabahlpark »

mschuster91 wrote: post #17
sieabahlpark wrote: post #2

I don't know what this achieves over booting up a VM of an old OS to run your programs.

First and foremost, security. Also convenience - no need to mess around with shared folders, NAT-based VM networking, OS updates, user accounts/passwords etc.

Anyone who is using that old of software through a VM to conduct business is wasting more money maintaining that setup than if they migrated somehow.

I don't believe this is a good business strategy.

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#126

Post by mschuster91 »

sieabahlpark wrote: post #125
mschuster91 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First and foremost, security. Also convenience - no need to mess around with shared folders, NAT-based VM networking, OS updates, user accounts/passwords etc.

Anyone who is using that old of software through a VM to conduct business is wasting more money maintaining that setup than if they migrated somehow. I don't believe this is a good business strategy.

It's not just for business, it's also relevant for old games fans - and will become ever more important for those of us who refuse to buy the "new" games that require a whole ssd for space, are plagued with drm and bugs and to top it off are pay2win upon paying 40€+.

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#127

Post by mixmastamyk »

bootlooped wrote: post #124
mixmastamyk wrote: post #114

If MS is now serious about cross-platform compatibility (and they have been moving in that direction), they should consider building a bridge over the filesystem divide as well. One or more of these would be useful: - Shipping a ext4 filesystem driver for Windows. - Contributing to exfat/ntfs drivers for Linux/Mac OS. Both would be even better.

Allegedly WSL2 allows you to access things in the WSL file system from plain Windows programs. In 5 minutes of experimenting I could not get a JetBrains IDE to work on a project stored in the WSL filesystem. You can at least use Windows explorer now though. I use WSL just about every day and I'm very optimistic about its future.

Was writing about filesystem drivers. They're not tied to WSL, but rather improve interoperability.

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#128

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

judge2020 wrote: post #108
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #55

It's a shame WSL will be replaced soon with WSL2, which is a mere virtual machine and not native support for Linux binaries.

> We currently have no plans to deprecate WSL 1. You can run WSL 1 and WSL 2 distros side by side, and can upgrade and downgrade any distro at any time. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/wsl2-faq

I find it unlikely MS will keep it definitely, and with no continued development effort it will become less compatible with new Linux distros, and thus diminish in utility over time.

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#129

Post by davidgerard »

davidgerard wrote: post #122
davidgerard wrote: post #43

OP here! Someone commented with how to make i386 work: https://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/607714.html?thread=831766... not just qemu-user, but telling it the magic numbers for binfmt to work I'll give it a spin when I get home this evening. ENCARTA 97 SHALL RIDE AGAIN, maybe

Thanks to my anonymous commenter, we have a route to 32-bit: sudo apt install qemu-user-static sudo update-binfmts --install i386 /usr/bin/qemu-i386-static --magic '\x7fELF\x01\x01\x01\x03\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x03\x00\x03\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00' --mask '\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xfc\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xf8\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff' sudo service binfmt-support start And now we can do: > fun@D…

oh, and Encarta 97 works flawlessly in Wine 4.13 on Linux

and continues to fail in Wine 4.13 on Windows 10 with qemu doing the win32 bits

Re: Wine on Windows 10

#130

Post by meruru »

coldpie wrote: post #105
the_duke wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, since you might know: is Proton upstreaming changes or are they going their separate ways? I'm not informed enough to say whether the fork made sense or not, but my immediate reaction was that using a OS project with immense man hours and effort behind it for commercial gain without contributing back would be very ... questionable.

Yes, of course. Valve is a very good open source citizen. The fork was necessary because we have a fair number of changes that are not appropriate for upstream Wine. As a single example, we integrate closely with the Steam for Linux client for stuff like achievements and multiplayer, which obviously can't go upstream. I'm actually the guy who does the rebases, so I'm very motivated to keep the diff as small as possib…

Thanks for the amazing work you guys are doing! I'm keeping an eye on the progress and it's amazing to see: https://boilingsteam.com/proton-keeps-making-its-way-in-comp...
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