Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

digest.bps.org.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 166 posts

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#81

Post by [deleted] »

klmr wrote: post #9
hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

This is good advice, but > they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis This sounds mental. Reading the Bible on a daily basis? I’m pretty sure that this is not the norm for the vast majority of (devout) Christians (at least in Western/Central Europe).

[deleted]

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#82

Post by seandhi »

I speak Spanish fluently as a second language.

> Listen to the language, even if you don’t have a clue what’s being said – and you’re not even paying close attention

I totally agree that this is helpful. Playing Spanish music while I work was one of the things I credited helping me learn so quickly.

> Don’t try too hard with the grammar

This, too. When I first started learning, I tried to remember all of the rules that I was taught in high school, but it was easier to just remember how the words are used in different contexts. Asking native speakers the whys behind the languages usually just results in frustration.

> Have a drink…

My verbal fluidity increases significantly when drinking. This probably has to do with letting go of the worry about sounding "dumb" while conversing in a different language. Most people are very forgiving towards people speaking in their non-native tongue, but it's still hard not being self-conscious. Alcohol helps.

I don't know about the other points, as I learned in an immersive environment by the seat of my pants.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#83

Post by coldtea »

pteraspidomorph wrote: post #78
pessimizer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet the tradition isn't the same in Catholicism (which I have no experience with.) Protestantism is largely an outgrowth of insisting that the Bible be distributed, and in a language that the locals could understand. The Roman churches expected you to be dependent on the priest's communications of what the Bible said.

The catholic church in general is, incredible as this may sound, more open to evolution. It just takes a very, very long time, but there have been dogma updates and clarifications throughout the centuries, and even admissions of being in the wrong. I fully expect the church's stance on some highly divisive issues of today to further evolve in the coming decades. Rather than insisting stories from millennia ago writte…

>The catholic church in general is, incredible as this may sound, more open to evolution.

Of course it is. The whole idea of protestantism was going "back to the roots", to the "initial sources". As such it is a fundamentalist creed.

Catholic, orthodox etc are much more socially and historically developed.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#84

Post by zzzcpan »

T1glober wrote: post #76
friedegg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a learning method called Spaced Repetition, which involves repeatedly quizzing yourself, with a decreasing frequency as you learn them. So, if you always know the word for dog, you'll get that one less frequently than the one for cat that you have more trouble remembering.

This makes sense. The act of recalling it is what cements your 'knowledge' of it, and repeating that recollection makes it easier to draw that connection each time.

It's not really how we learn new things. We see, hear, experience them in context many times, not force ourselves to recall them. Forced repetition is one of the worst most inefficient approaches to language learning.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#85

Post by BigJ1211 »

chanandler_bong wrote: post #25

"German volunteers learning Dutch who’d drunk enough vodka to achieve a blood alcohol level of 0.04 per cent (approximately equivalent to just under a pint of beer for a 70kg male) were rated by independent Dutch speakers as speaking the language more proficiently during a short-test" Based on my limited exposure to Dutch, this sounds about right; drunken German. Edit: "Als vliegen achter vliegen vliegen, vliegen vli…

We generally say if you shout Dutch it sounds German (especially if you do it in a certain way). So I guess the reverse also holds true somewhat. Though I think in general people who've had a drink or two speak more 'fluently' in foreign languages. Mostly because they don't think too much about what they're trying to say.

Also translation: "If flies fly behind flies, flies fly flight speed" (in general the translation for vliegensvlug is 'as fast as lightning' which isn't really accurate and I suppose a better translation is "a bird's flight(speed)" than lightning)

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#86

Post by HerrMonnezza »

This talk by Chris Lonsdale gives some practical advice on learning new languages fast. Most of it is along the lines of what the article says, but seems to say that the key part is to get a "language parent", whom you can have conversations with and will try to understand and reply to you, no matter what (like parents do with small children):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0yGdNEWdn0

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#87

Post by adrianN »

friedegg wrote: post #27
melling wrote: post #21

My feeling is that you need an incredible amount of repetition. I never really learned Spanish well until I took immersion classes in Guatemala then continued on backpacking through South America for several months. A decade later I still struggle to retain what I learned. I’ve built many language learning Android and iPhone apps over the years. I still don’t have a great formula but I think my latest iPhone apps are…

There is a learning method called Spaced Repetition, which involves repeatedly quizzing yourself, with a decreasing frequency as you learn them. So, if you always know the word for dog, you'll get that one less frequently than the one for cat that you have more trouble remembering.

I use Anki with Yomichan to study Japanese and find it very effective.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#88

Post by onemoresoop »

chanandler_bong wrote: post #25

"German volunteers learning Dutch who’d drunk enough vodka to achieve a blood alcohol level of 0.04 per cent (approximately equivalent to just under a pint of beer for a 70kg male) were rated by independent Dutch speakers as speaking the language more proficiently during a short-test" Based on my limited exposure to Dutch, this sounds about right; drunken German. Edit: "Als vliegen achter vliegen vliegen, vliegen vli…

This has probably to do with the inhibition factor that many but not all learners of a foreign language have.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#89

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

melling wrote: post #21

My feeling is that you need an incredible amount of repetition. I never really learned Spanish well until I took immersion classes in Guatemala then continued on backpacking through South America for several months. A decade later I still struggle to retain what I learned. I’ve built many language learning Android and iPhone apps over the years. I still don’t have a great formula but I think my latest iPhone apps are…

My feeling on learning a language is that you break down a language barrier to find an even more difficult cultural barrier.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#90

Post by no1youknowz »

I'm currently learning Japanese and I've only been at it for a month. My tools are :-

1) Pimsleur Japanese [0]

2) Michel Thomas Japanese [1]

3) Creating my own Anki decks [2]

4) Genki Textbooks [3]

5) Remembering the Kanji [4]

Firstly, I know it's going to take at least 2 years to be good at Japanese and I'm intent on just enjoying the journey. I have absolutely no need to rush.

Right now I'm only concentrating on my speaking and listening skills. I'm not at all fussed about pitch accents and will improve that when I get a tutor (think year 2).

My methodology is going to consist of:

- Doing each CD of Pimsleur (there are 5 in total, with 30 lessons each).

- Actively listening and speaking for 30 minutes in the morning, just after lunch and just after dinner. Thus doing 1 hour and a half a day.

- Write down all the newer words for each lesson into a notebook for review later.

- Writing down all the sentences in an excel spreadsheet for the anki deck. So far I have around 900 words and sentences.

My progress is that I have completed the first CD and I have memorised into my long term memory up to lesson 20. Unfortunately my memory starts to fade when reviewing the anki deck past lesson 20 and I get the sentence order incorrect even though I know the words. Of course, I want to get to 100% before moving onto the next CD.

To switch things up a bit. I've now started to do Michele Thomas CDs and listen passively in the background. Michele Thomas isn't as demanding for your attention as Pimsleur.

When I have finished both groups of CDs. I'll go through the Genki textbook and after that start to focus on my writing skills with Remember the Kanji.

After that, that's when I'll go on italki [5] and get a tutor.

Oh and when watching Anime (with Japanese Subs). I understand around 10% so far, in just a month. I do start to laugh though when the subs are not correct.

I can only imagine what I understand, when I have finished all CDs. I hope to get to at least 75% and then start to watch Anime with the subs removed.

Finally, if anyone wants to go the immersion route. Highly recommend Matt vs Japan [6]. I'll be doing this once I finish the CDs and books.

[0]: https://www.pimsleur.com/learn-japanese/pimsleur-japanese-le...

[1]: https://www.michelthomas.com/learn-japanese/

[2]: https://apps.ankiweb.net/

[3]: https://www.amazon.com/GENKI-Integrated-Elementary-Japanese-...

[4]: https://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kanji-Complete-Japanese-C...

[5]: https://www.italki.com/

[6]: https://www.youtube.com/user/MATTvsJapan

Post reply on HN