Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language • Hacker News Board

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#71

Post by pwinnski » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #11

klmr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good advice, but > they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis This sounds mental. Reading the Bible on a daily basis? I’m pretty sure that this is not the norm for the vast majority of (devout) Christians (at least in Western/Central Europe).

It is not a norm. Even in very devout households attending multiple masses every week. (I'm not saying there aren't people doing actual mindful reading every day, but the generalisation to "Christians" in this case is bad)

I believe (without linkable evidence) that Roman Catholics are far less likely to engage in daily reading that protestants, but 27% of Americans[0] read their Bibles several times a week or daily.

[0] https://www.barna.com/research/state-of-the-bible-2018-seven...

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#72

Post by jaaajaa102 » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

friedegg wrote: post #27

melling wrote: post #21

My feeling is that you need an incredible amount of repetition. I never really learned Spanish well until I took immersion classes in Guatemala then continued on backpacking through South America for several months. A decade later I still struggle to retain what I learned. I’ve built many language learning Android and iPhone apps over the years. I still don’t have a great formula but I think my latest iPhone apps are…

There is a learning method called Spaced Repetition, which involves repeatedly quizzing yourself, with a decreasing frequency as you learn them. So, if you always know the word for dog, you'll get that one less frequently than the one for cat that you have more trouble remembering.

This app does this exceptionally. It does limit you to 5 minutes a day though, but at times does offer you more time. https://languagedrops.com/

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#73

Post by zzzcpan » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

yawboakye wrote: post #40

Immersion still remains the best method. I've tried a plethora of approaches to learn German (not the easiest or most fancy and I swear I'm not masochist) and it's not working. The biggest progress I made came when I was forced to speak it with my gym buddy because that was our common denominator. That said, if you want to learn German, avoid Berlin. Everyone will meet you with English.

Did you try watching German movies or tv shows with German subtitles and translating every word you don't yet understand? It's like immersion but on steroids. It naturally prioritized and trains your brain on all the common words and you get to seemingly impossible levels of understanding in the shortest possible time.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#74

Post by sjcsjc » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

f00zz wrote: post #53

notyourloops wrote: post #23

I learned how to turn a stream of nonsense (from my perspective) into words by listening to hundreds of hours of Spanish TV that I didn't understand. Spanish audio + Spanish subtitles (to figure out how to parse sound, and to map sound to writing), and then Spanish audio only (prevent reliance on reading). Surprisingly effective. Incomprehensible input appears to be quite valuable. At some point I'll try applying my…

Just bear in mind that there's a huge difference between being able to get the gist of something spoken in a foreign language and being able to convey your thoughts effectively in that language. Even after man-years of study I still sound like an idiot when trying to speak English in conference calls, even though I can understand nearly 100% of written and spoken English.

I obviously can't judge your spoken English, but your written English is fine. If you hadn't stated otherwise, I would have assumed from your writing that English was your native language.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#75

Post by pwinnski » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #50

hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

This also helped me learn Chinese, along with translated worship music. For English speakers learning Chinese: https://pingtype.github.io/bible.html#_home For Chinese speakers learning English: https://pingtype.github.io/bibleEnglish.html#_home Songs: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwKrKHi_rqtAjt0eIvhEB... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwKrKHi_rqtBNfDESXQuk...

I attend church in Cantonese every week with my girlfriend. She is fluent, and I am not at all. Even after a month of services, I can occasionally sing along with bits of songs, especially songs I know in English. Pretty crazy.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#76

Post by T1glober » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

friedegg wrote: post #27

melling wrote: post #21

My feeling is that you need an incredible amount of repetition. I never really learned Spanish well until I took immersion classes in Guatemala then continued on backpacking through South America for several months. A decade later I still struggle to retain what I learned. I’ve built many language learning Android and iPhone apps over the years. I still don’t have a great formula but I think my latest iPhone apps are…

There is a learning method called Spaced Repetition, which involves repeatedly quizzing yourself, with a decreasing frequency as you learn them. So, if you always know the word for dog, you'll get that one less frequently than the one for cat that you have more trouble remembering.

This makes sense. The act of recalling it is what cements your 'knowledge' of it, and repeating that recollection makes it easier to draw that connection each time.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#77

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Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#78

Post by pteraspidomorph » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #60

astura wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Protestant denominations but my mother grew up extremely Catholic (in the US) where every single part of life revolved around church. The family was about as devout as you could possibly get, including not practicing birth control. However, individual Bible reading wasn't practiced. In fact, individual Bible reading was actually discouraged by the nuns.

I'd bet the tradition isn't the same in Catholicism (which I have no experience with.) Protestantism is largely an outgrowth of insisting that the Bible be distributed, and in a language that the locals could understand. The Roman churches expected you to be dependent on the priest's communications of what the Bible said.

The catholic church in general is, incredible as this may sound, more open to evolution. It just takes a very, very long time, but there have been dogma updates and clarifications throughout the centuries, and even admissions of being in the wrong. I fully expect the church's stance on some highly divisive issues of today to further evolve in the coming decades.

Rather than insisting stories from millennia ago written by humans (even if you believe them to be divinely inspired) are forever perfect and right for an evolving secular civilization, it makes more sense to me if those stories are put into context by what are, in the end, educated professionals who have spent years studying them and other associated texts.

I've heard a lot of sermons from catholic priests who were good at their job (caveat: I've also heard priests who were terrible at their job...) that I would consider interesting and thought-provoking even for atheists. I'm particularly fond of jesuit priests (such as the current pope), who are more scientifically minded and more likely to speak "my language", in my experience.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#79

Post by avip » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #66

dlkf wrote: post #54

> Evening learning probably isn’t ideal for teenagers either. In a study published in 2012, Johannes Holz at the University of Freiberg, and colleagues, found that 16- and 17-year-old girls performed better on tests of factual memory if they’d learned the material at 3pm than at 9pm. > However, another study, published in Psychological Science in 2016, suggests that evening learning can be beneficial – especially if…

Also why bother with microoptimizations? Just sound like easy ways to justify excuses — “Welp my 3pm window passed, maybe tomorrow!” The best method is the one you actually do.

Because it’s a publishable result.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#80

Post by asark » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

sjcsjc wrote: post #74

f00zz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just bear in mind that there's a huge difference between being able to get the gist of something spoken in a foreign language and being able to convey your thoughts effectively in that language. Even after man-years of study I still sound like an idiot when trying to speak English in conference calls, even though I can understand nearly 100% of written and spoken English.

I obviously can't judge your spoken English, but your written English is fine. If you hadn't stated otherwise, I would have assumed from your writing that English was your native language.

Idiomatic usage ("bear in mind") and register ("gist") even came off as native, without running into common give-aways like incorrect or technically-OK-but-not-quite-right prepositions. Nice.