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Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

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Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#11
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider, it seems that the way the police in the US react is the consequence of interaction with the public. In places where the police have an active role in settling disputes, they also enjoy more respect from the community.

It's because you only hear about the bad things. Sure there are some crazy cops like everywhere else. But all in all I'm certain most cops are good people who just want to help citizens and remove the bad guys.

Why are you certain of this? I do not think Police deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#12
Citizens shooting each other is conflict resolution, which only becomes a police issue when people know no other resolution than violence. By the time conflict reaches the police, it's escalated to where third parties like the police can only clean up after.

If an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, teaching social and emotional skills to children would help a lot, though would take a generation to see widespread results. Our schools not only don't teach social and emotional skills, they teach submission to authoritarian rule and remove what could teach social and emotional skills: recess, free play, the arts (doing them not history or appreciation). Schools are among the most authoritarian institutions. (I recommend Peter Gray's Freedom to Learn blog https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn, especially Children’s Freedom: A Human Rights Perspective: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201902...).

Schools could help a lot, specifically, teaching skills through experience, not abstract facts to fill out bubbles on standardized tests.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#13
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other countries police has an active role in settling disputes using empathy and compassion, instead of just arresting people and locking them away. This sounds false to me outside of some Western European areas but I don’t have data to support it

The situation is similar to what the parent describes in the Czech Republic (which is considered eastern Europe).

I'd say Poland too, which again, some consider Eastern Europe.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#15
post #9

> Cooperating with law enforcement is often morally and practically unthinkable for the city’s most vulnerable The article has a really big blind spot, in that it fails to mention the Drug War even a single time. If you want to understand why America's police act like an occupying army- the militarization of weapons and approaches, the festering hostility between the police and the policed, the heavy-handed suspicion…

Parts of it go back to Prohibition too. The original push to get police into cars was partially just to let them cover more ground. But part of it was that cars would separate them from the neighborhoods they covered a bit and prevent them from absorbing local mores about what sorts of activities were harmless instead of what the law said.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#16
I'm a white male, near 1% income and I live in a small town about 30 miles outside a major U.S. city and I'm terrified of the police.

We've stopped holding the police accountable for their actions and it's out of control. Local government, state government, prosecutors and most of all the Unions are to blame. Yeah, the Union, I'm the son of a Union executive and Unions have lost their way.

The Union is supposed to protect the possibility of a loss of a job position, the individual from unacceptable working conditions and unjustified sanctions, but they should also be holding the individual up the standards of conduct, but that's been lost. The union should be wanting to oust a bad cop, the position won't go away, so there is no loss of a job position, but if the individual isn't living up the the standards of behavior it reflects badly on the rest of the organization, and harms their strength. I watched my father walk union members off jobs because of poor performance, and after repeated failures throw them out of the union.

The unions themselves have become a very dangerous criminal gang, they carry weapons, they control people's lives, and they basically have no accountability. The populace is afraid, the politicians are afraid, and the legal system is afraid. The police have become paramilitary goon squads with their own agenda.

A friend's uncle just retired from a southern police force, while he was working he was pulled over 10's of times for DUI and was never charged because he's a cop. Now that he's retired he's drunk all the time and is constantly getting pulled over and driven home, but he's never been charged. He's only had a few minor accidents that got covered up because the police threatened the other driver. He'll keep doing this until he actually kills someone, then it will be interesting to see if anything happens.

Until the police are held accountable the problem is going to keep getting worse. Career criminals who are victims aren't the only people at risk, we are all at risk.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#17
post #2

Some (not all) of US police are uniquely unqualified to deal with this. You need to be able to show some compassion in this job and try to actually help people instead of just being a squad of gun wielding weirdos who show up to cart any suspicious people away, guns blazing. In most other countries police has an active role in settling disputes using empathy and compassion, instead of just arresting people and lockin…

> In most other countries police has an active role in settling disputes using empathy and compassion, instead of just arresting people and locking them away. This sounds false to me outside of some Western European areas but I don’t have data to support it

Well here's some data to support my side of the argument. Note that this chart uses a logarithmic scale:

https://i.ibb.co/gMtDhgQ/b.png

Full PDF: https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/Crime-stat...

Sadly I couldn't find the number of arrests made in any useful comparison, but US police have a policy of "taking people in" for almost any offense, so I'd expect it to roughly match that.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because you only hear about the bad things. Sure there are some crazy cops like everywhere else. But all in all I'm certain most cops are good people who just want to help citizens and remove the bad guys.

Why are you certain of this? I do not think Police deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.

I don't know how many cops are there in the US but thinking most of them are psychopaths is absurd.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#19
post #9

> Cooperating with law enforcement is often morally and practically unthinkable for the city’s most vulnerable The article has a really big blind spot, in that it fails to mention the Drug War even a single time. If you want to understand why America's police act like an occupying army- the militarization of weapons and approaches, the festering hostility between the police and the policed, the heavy-handed suspicion…

Wish I could upvote the above comment more than once!

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#20
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most other countries police has an active role in settling disputes using empathy and compassion, instead of just arresting people and locking them away. This sounds false to me outside of some Western European areas but I don’t have data to support it

The situation is similar to what the parent describes in the Czech Republic (which is considered eastern Europe).

But IIRC these central/eastern European countries don't have very high crime. I presume what GP meant is that one should also look at other places with comparable size crime problems.

I mean comparing Baltimore to (say) Prague is a bit like comparing it to Malibu, I'm not sure we learn much. But compare it to districts of Rio, for instance, and then maybe we can learn something about how different policing approaches play out.

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