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Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

news.rthk.hk

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Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#51

Post by k_sze »

manicdee wrote: post #50
hermitdev wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some flashlights can definitely be used as weapons. A Maglite to the clavical while holding the bulb end is a pretty sure fire way to break ones collar bone and otherwise incapacitate an assailant. One of the reasons I keep one in my car. I once had the use it as a deterrent in a road rage incident. Random guy got pissed at me for driving aggressively in a school (I was driving the speed limit and he tried to pull ou…

A flashlight in your backpack is not a weapon. Also an inexperienced person trying to use a blunt force weapon is more likely to become the victim.

In the eyes of the law, the intent matters much more than whether you can actually use the “weapon” effectively, especially if it can be demonstrated that somebody with enough skill/experience (not necessarily the person being found in possession) can use the “weapon” effectively.

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#52

Post by computerfriend »

waffle_ss wrote: post #41
woutr_be wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some more context; they're not only used to interfere with facial recognition. They're also being used to annoy the police officers, as well as people who are watching from their windows when protestors pass by. I've had lasers pointed at me when I was just looking out of my window over the protests.

Is there a reason to lase random people looking out the window? Is it to shame you for not joining the protest, or because you could be a police or pro-China observer, etc.?

The protesters want to avoid their faces being photographed. It's a reasonable thing to want, although I must admit it is pretty annoying.

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#53

Post by yfzhou »

waffle_ss wrote: post #41
woutr_be wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some more context; they're not only used to interfere with facial recognition. They're also being used to annoy the police officers, as well as people who are watching from their windows when protestors pass by. I've had lasers pointed at me when I was just looking out of my window over the protests.

Is there a reason to lase random people looking out the window? Is it to shame you for not joining the protest, or because you could be a police or pro-China observer, etc.?

Same reason protesters disrupted traffic by blocking roads and holding train doors open during rush hour to prevent people from going to work, disrespect the national flag, etc.

Some of them are protesting for reasonable demands (even universal suffrage is not too unrealistic a demand for Beijing IMO but any dose of separatism is definitely a no-no) but increasingly it looks like the majority are students venting their anger because they found themselves in a bad economic situation and have a long summer break to spare.

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#54

Post by computerfriend »

tlrobinson wrote: post #28
whisk wrote: post #16

I am pretty sure China doesn't have a restriction on laser pointers. There are laser pointers up to 1W for sale on taobao.com

And in case it’s not obvious, they’re incredibly dangerous to eyesight. They’ll literally blind you before you can blink.

It really depends on the power. The lasers the protesters use wouldn't blind you due to the blink reflex. If what you're saying was true, hundreds of police officers would be blind right now.

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#55

Post by ce4 »

woutr_be wrote: post #38
_ptgt wrote: post #33

Some relevant context: laser pointers have been being used by HK protesters lately to interfere with facial recognition on security cameras

Some more context; they're not only used to interfere with facial recognition. They're also being used to annoy the police officers, as well as people who are watching from their windows when protestors pass by. I've had lasers pointed at me when I was just looking out of my window over the protests.

Depending on the class it's not annoyance but endangers your eyesight. If used (in)appropriately it can definitely be classified as a weapon. A number of people have lost their eye to these things in the past (class 2+) - read on why its forbidden at burning man:

https://burningman.org/event/black-rock-city-guide/lasers/

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#56

Post by hermitdev »

k_sze wrote: post #51
manicdee wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A flashlight in your backpack is not a weapon. Also an inexperienced person trying to use a blunt force weapon is more likely to become the victim.

In the eyes of the law, the intent matters much more than whether you can actually use the “weapon” effectively, especially if it can be demonstrated that somebody with enough skill/experience (not necessarily the person being found in possession) can use the “weapon” effectively.

Also, in the case of something like AntiFa, even if you had something like a Maglite in a backpack, intent to use could easily be construed. Broad daylight, youve got a Maglite? To what end?

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#57

Post by shalmanese »

hermitdev wrote: post #47
ab_c wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actual video footage of HK police officers arresting a kid because he had a flashlight in his backpack. They deemed it as a "weapon". Right now, HKPD is going on a rampage and making up excuses to arrest anyone who is brazen enough to talk back at them. It's juvenile. Good luck to the police officers who think that they'll magically go back to their normal lives after this. After grossly mistreating so many p…

Some flashlights can definitely be used as weapons. A Maglite to the clavical while holding the bulb end is a pretty sure fire way to break ones collar bone and otherwise incapacitate an assailant. One of the reasons I keep one in my car. I once had the use it as a deterrent in a road rage incident. Random guy got pissed at me for driving aggressively in a school (I was driving the speed limit and he tried to pull ou…

Part of the reason Maglite is so popular with security guards is that it's a weapon that also doubles as a flashlight and thus becomes legal to carry around.

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#58

Post by wilheim »

ab_c wrote: post #19
latch wrote: post #2

Thought I'd agree with this, but they were found in his bag. Doesn't sound like he used them and there's no mention of whether or not they're of an illegal class (assuming some are illegal in HK). Another article (1) quotes the Chief Inspector as saying: "If anyone uses such an object to attack a person, it could also be deemed an offensive weapon" but no mention of such an attack in this specific case. Can anyone su…

There's actual video footage of HK police officers arresting a kid because he had a flashlight in his backpack. They deemed it as a "weapon". Right now, HKPD is going on a rampage and making up excuses to arrest anyone who is brazen enough to talk back at them. It's juvenile. Good luck to the police officers who think that they'll magically go back to their normal lives after this. After grossly mistreating so many p…

I would not use the word rampage. Taking a neutral stance on the current matter in Hong Kong, you can see the use of extreme force catapulting bricks and rocks at the law enforcement officer and is more clear cut. The Lazer Pointer incident highlights the grey area with actual weapons to cause harm and the intention of modification of objects as weapons to cause harm. Lazer pointers with the wattage 1-5w can damage your eyes with a 10sec exposure. However, it does not take a lot of skill to upgrade the Lazer emitter with soldering electronics to increase output higher to cause harm easier and longer distances. The Police didn’t make that aspect clear. In addition reasonable use would have a person purchase one but purchasing 10 seems to fall out of ordinary use.

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#59

Post by wilheim »

manicdee wrote: post #50
hermitdev wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some flashlights can definitely be used as weapons. A Maglite to the clavical while holding the bulb end is a pretty sure fire way to break ones collar bone and otherwise incapacitate an assailant. One of the reasons I keep one in my car. I once had the use it as a deterrent in a road rage incident. Random guy got pissed at me for driving aggressively in a school (I was driving the speed limit and he tried to pull ou…

A flashlight in your backpack is not a weapon. Also an inexperienced person trying to use a blunt force weapon is more likely to become the victim.

A flashlight depending on type and size can be deemed as weapon. If it is a small pocket size naturally that would not immediately categorised as a weapon. However, if the flashlight sized object is a lazer pointer then it possibly can be categorised as being a weapon not physical but a distanced weapon of harm. It depends on the output of the Lazer if it is within safety parameters and also the users intended use. If the user is a lecturer or consultant then it fails within reasonable use. I think the legal considerations law enforcement and legal professionals have to deal with is more complex.

Re: Police arrest student leader over laser pointers in Hong Kong

#60

Post by wilheim »

ajdlinux wrote: post #9
latch wrote: post #2

Thought I'd agree with this, but they were found in his bag. Doesn't sound like he used them and there's no mention of whether or not they're of an illegal class (assuming some are illegal in HK). Another article (1) quotes the Chief Inspector as saying: "If anyone uses such an object to attack a person, it could also be deemed an offensive weapon" but no mention of such an attack in this specific case. Can anyone su…

Mens rea alone isn't enough to be convicted of a crime, but the actus reus in this case sounds like possession rather than use. I don't know about HK laws on laser pointers but here in Australia there are restrictions on laser pointers - anything >1mW requires a permit in most states, without a permit you're liable for possession of a prohibited weapon whether or not you planned to use it. Even <1mW, you may be requi…

Agreed and I think the public perception on the news regarding the Lazer Pointer incident doesn’t encompass the use of Lazer pointers or the governance of Lazer pointers. However, I think the Police didn’t make clear enough is the suspicion of carrying weapons and the wattage of the Lazer pointers weren’t disclosed at this point. Furthermore, the intention to modify something as a weapon to cause harm is something most regular people don’t consider. It’s easy to upgrade a laser pointer to emit light dangerously high and able to cause damage at a longer distances. I think Hk should take a page from Australia and limit the use of lasers as they are harmful even at 1-5w output. I certainly wouldn’t let my kids play with them.
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