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Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

theinformation.com

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Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#51

Post by alexanderchr »

codeulike wrote: post #19

I've noticed something sneaky about Facebook on my phone. I refuse to install their apps but I do use Facebook a bit so I use it via the phone Browser (in my case, Chrome on Android). I've noticed that sometimes Facebook shows a fake 'youve got a message' icon to try and trick you into installing their messenger app. To re-produce this behaviour: (this works best if you dont get a lot of facebook messages. Also you n…

I don't think it's intentional. Facebook has had this bug for several years. Interestingly one of the reasons they created react/flux was to fix it: https://youtu.be/nYkdrAPrdcw (15 minute mark)

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#52

Post by makomk »

dang wrote: post #29
yipeedipee wrote: post #24

Ars just covered it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/08/ios-13-privacy-featu...

Normally we'd switch to something like that so everyone can read it, but since The Information just unlocked this one for HN, we can stick with the original source this time.

Probably for the best, since the Ars Technica article seems rather confused.

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#53

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

rosser wrote: post #23
codeulike wrote: post #19

I've noticed something sneaky about Facebook on my phone. I refuse to install their apps but I do use Facebook a bit so I use it via the phone Browser (in my case, Chrome on Android). I've noticed that sometimes Facebook shows a fake 'youve got a message' icon to try and trick you into installing their messenger app. To re-produce this behaviour: (this works best if you dont get a lot of facebook messages. Also you n…

I don't think it's an attempt to get you to install messenger so much as it's a cheap tactic to drive engagement, generally. I do have Messenger installed on a device, and it also shows unread notifications for conversations where I sent the last message, a bit (I've never timed how long) after the message was sent. I assumed it was just some shitty dark pattern, that (enough) people are Pavlov-ing at unread notifica…

FWIW this has never happened to me.

It also strikes me as suboptimal even as a "dark pattern": Clicking on conversations when you have the app open already, and not seeing new messages you expect, is frustrating without any conceivable payoff for Facebook. The pattern mentioned above–the app icon showing activity, which gets you to open the app–seems far more plausible.

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#54

Post by airstrike »

irrational wrote: post #30
hart_russell wrote: post #2

+1 to Apple's track record for user privacy. I do not regret switching from Android to iOS (even if siri is woefully behind the voice assistant game)

Also autocomplete. I had a samsung phone running android that was almost omniscient in knowing what I wanted to type or keeping track of what I had just been reading or searching for and giving me suggestions based on that (like if I had been reading about a restaurant and then went to send a text to my wife it would give me prompts about the restaurant, which is exactly what I wanted). iOS autocomplete is woefully s…

Just install SwiftKey. The native iOS keyboard is absolutely appalling, I don't wish it upon my worst enemy...

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#55

Post by peteretep »

charlesju wrote: post #13
hart_russell wrote: post #2

+1 to Apple's track record for user privacy. I do not regret switching from Android to iOS (even if siri is woefully behind the voice assistant game)

What voice assistant features do you miss? I've never used Android so I'm curious.

Once I had Alexa in my home I stopped asking Siri for anything ever

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#56

Post by makomk »

tareqak wrote: post #45
mantap wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of voip mode is well established technique for building encrypted messaging apps on iOS, and its unsurprising that whatsapp is built around it, especially when you consider that whatsapp is a voip app . No conspiracy theories are necessary.

Are Signal and other messaging apps relying on this feature and do they offer VoIP functionality?

As far as I can tell, that's a yes to both: Signal supports VoIP calls, they're definitely using the PushKit VoIP API, and I assume they're using that API for both text notifications and calls since the code doesn't have any reference to the other API they could use.

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#57

Post by ilikehurdles »

brianpgordon wrote: post #48

> “To be clear—we are using the PushKit VoIP API to deliver a world-class, private messaging experience, not for the purpose of collecting data." I think we must be at the point where it's arguably irresponsible journalism for The Information to broadcast a claim like that from Facebook without immediately pointing out the occasions in the past when identical claims about data collection have turned out to be barefac…

>not for the purpose of collecting data.

That just sounds like skirting the fact that they likely are collecting data.

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#58

Post by freehunter »

rwc wrote: post #32
dang wrote: post #28

The submitted URL was https://www.theinformation.com/articles/facebook-hit-by-appl... , which was hard-paywalled. But The Information has been unlocking many of their articles for HN readers. I asked if they would do that for this one and they said yes, so everyone who clicks on the link above should be able to read it now.

Nice, thank you! And thank you to The Information for sharing quality journalism with the HN community.

This is pretty nice and I was considering subscribing because of them lifting the paywall but it doesn’t seem like they show the subscription cost until after you’ve given them your email address and created a password? I always assume if you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it. It just seems when you click the “subscribe now” button it would tell you the price of the subscription on the next page.

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#59

Post by ckosidows »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #57
brianpgordon wrote: post #48

> “To be clear—we are using the PushKit VoIP API to deliver a world-class, private messaging experience, not for the purpose of collecting data." I think we must be at the point where it's arguably irresponsible journalism for The Information to broadcast a claim like that from Facebook without immediately pointing out the occasions in the past when identical claims about data collection have turned out to be barefac…

>not for the purpose of collecting data. That just sounds like skirting the fact that they likely are collecting data.

Right. "Not our purpose" != "We aren't doing it"

Re: Facebook Hit by Apple’s Crackdown on Messaging Feature

#60

Post by SeanBoocock »

brianpgordon wrote: post #48

> “To be clear—we are using the PushKit VoIP API to deliver a world-class, private messaging experience, not for the purpose of collecting data." I think we must be at the point where it's arguably irresponsible journalism for The Information to broadcast a claim like that from Facebook without immediately pointing out the occasions in the past when identical claims about data collection have turned out to be barefac…

> "I think we must be at the point where it's arguably irresponsible journalism for The Information to broadcast a claim like that from Facebook without immediately pointing out the occasions in the past when identical claims about data collection have turned out to be barefaced lies."

I am struggling to recall any unambiguous instances like you suggest, especially anything rising to the level of "barefaced lies". What would be the best examples?

I agree that journalists should give sufficient context about Facebook's history around data and privacy, but I also expect anyone that is subscribing to The Information doesn't need it rehashed for them.

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