Amazon Is a Monopoly • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#331

Post by bduerst » Tue, Aug 06, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #293

bduerst wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple stores only sells accessories to their manufactured products, and isn't a retail platform. If Apple opened stores that sold a wide range a goods, including from other sellers, and then banned Dell, then yes, your hypothetical would be anticompetitive.

Then why aren’t apps an “accessory” to the iPhone where Apple can decide not to allow certain apps - including hypothetically Amazon? Do the console makers have a right to deny certain games on their platform? Does a physical store have to sell every product imaginable?

Because the app store is an app commerce platform that other companies list and sell things through.

Apps are not accessories to hardware, and splitting hairs on the semantics is kind of banal.

Are you aware of what sea-lioning is?

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#332

Post by bduerst » Tue, Aug 06, 2019, 10:56 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #329

bduerst wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between enforcing a TOS for everyone and specifically banning someone who is a competitor.

So if CVS wanted to sell their store drug brands at Walmart and Walmart refused, would that be anti competitive?

No that is not anti-competitive, because Wal-Mart isn't a platform that lets other companies sell through their stores. Wal-mart is notorious for using it's buying power to push down the purchase prices for it's inventory.

This type of question has already been answered. Are you aware of what sea-lioning is?

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#333

Post by jiveturkey » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:35 AM UTC

lisper wrote: post #207

jiveturkey wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

take a taxi to the marriot next door. then uber from there.

Having to carry my bags a short distance vs having to transfer then from one vehicle to another is kind of a wash for me in terms of hassle.

in the parent comment, though, you were complaining about the price. transferring your bags would save you $50 if not more.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#334

Post by digitaltrees » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:16 AM UTC

5trokerac3 wrote: post #271

blairanderson wrote: post #120

I run a consulting company for Amazon suppliers. We have roughly 2-dozen Amazon suppliers and our first-hand experience is that Amazon is absolutely stifling competition/business to the detriment of customer. The biggest problem is `agreements that restrain trade` is a monopoly practice that happens across the board. They're a black box AND have tiny support systems for their marketplace. One recent example. A client…

> A client was on track to be selling $X-million this year of some appliances. Our client was forced to to stop selling because of trump tariffs. Amazon won't accept a "higher price" from our little company that only sells $Xm/year. A devil's advocate view: perhaps the supplier was buying low cost appliances from China, built in factories with who knows what labor standards or whether the work was compulsory, made al…

Why is amazon setting the price rather than letting the supplier and the market?

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#335

Post by dodobirdlord » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #241

dodobirdlord wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aren't they playing really nice and even operating at loss until they become a monopoly? No, they aren't. They publish their financial statement every quarter. Generally their revenue is very close to their expenses. Given that, it's impossible that "operating at loss" is an accurate characterization of their business strategy. Jeff Bezos has a saying; "Your margin is my opportunity." It lays out pretty clearly wha…

What I meant was pre-monopoly. The times when a company is constantly loosing money, like Uber. Anyway, what happens when there are no competitors because the margins are too slim to be profitable without being at Amazon scale? If they are not a charity these margins will get fattier as much as their hearts desires. Their potential competitors won't be able to say "your fat margins are my opportunity" because Amazon…

> Anyway, what happens when there are no competitors because the margins are too slim to be profitable without being at Amazon scale? If they are not a charity these margins will get fattier as much as their hearts desires.

If Amazon significantly raises their prices, then suddenly their prices aren't particularly hard to compete against.

> Amazon will be able to do all kinds of anti-competative things

I think we can cross this bridge when Amazon starts doing anti-competitive things.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#336

Post by angstrom » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:41 AM UTC

throwawayor624 wrote: post #315

angstrom wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve worked for Amazon. The thing you have to remember on the retail side is much of the focus is on CP (contribution profit) and much of analysis has to do with finding the largest negative CP products in different marketplaces and pulling levers to make them less negative. There’s a large number of negative CP items carried just because it improves customer selection which helps drive larger cart orders. I never he…

Grocery stores have been doing this for decades. "Our milk supply expires at the end of the week? 50% off!" And then they raise the price of eggs, bread, peanut butter, and other frequently purchased items by 5 cents each.

That's not the same. This is more along the lines of examining what is causing the negative CP. The margin is impacted by several factors that determine the cost, but then you can go a step further and look at the net impact on profit based on the items it was purchased with. Much of what is sold on Amazon is not stocked by Amazon. Therefore the symbiotic relationship that is best is to maximize vendor profit AND Amazon profit. This means being competitive on the Amazon marketplace as well as against other retailers and that can be best achieved by Amazon lowering the net margins to be profitable, but not uncompetitive. These are things from the quality of images and detail about the product to the shipping options, to the damage incurred during storage/shipping. The end goal is to optimize for the customer propensity to checkout and not return the items which is also a good sign of customer satisfaction. Most people who walk into a grocery are going to walk out with whatever they put in their cart. Cart abandonment is much higher in e-commerce and so there's a good deal of effort understanding what lowers the propensity to complete the order.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#337

Post by dodobirdlord » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #269

soulofmischief wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one split up Facebook? Amazon? What would it look like?

Facebook is easy. Break off Instagram and WhatsApp. Those acquisitions should never have been allowed. Amazon might look like splitting retail from AWS or similar.

Breaking Amazon apart into a retail business and a cloud computing business to address monopoly concerns is about the most pointless idea possible. If you think that Amazon exerts a monopoly influence over retail and cloud computing, splitting off AWS does nothing to address that.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#338

Post by lisper » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 2:54 AM UTC

jiveturkey wrote: post #333

lisper wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to carry my bags a short distance vs having to transfer then from one vehicle to another is kind of a wash for me in terms of hassle.

in the parent comment, though, you were complaining about the price. transferring your bags would save you $50 if not more.

I was complaining about the arbitrary non-linearity in the cab fare at 20 miles, not really the price per se. But simply taking Uber/Lyft direct from the airport saves me the same $50 plus the cab fare to the hotel.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#339

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 3:32 AM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #332

scarface74 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if CVS wanted to sell their store drug brands at Walmart and Walmart refused, would that be anti competitive?

No that is not anti-competitive, because Wal-Mart isn't a platform that lets other companies sell through their stores. Wal-mart is notorious for using it's buying power to push down the purchase prices for it's inventory. This type of question has already been answered. Are you aware of what sea-lioning is?

So Walmart isn’t a “platform” even though they sell goods from third parties but Amazon is a platform that sells goods from third parties? What’s the difference?

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#340

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 3:39 AM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #331

scarface74 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why aren’t apps an “accessory” to the iPhone where Apple can decide not to allow certain apps - including hypothetically Amazon? Do the console makers have a right to deny certain games on their platform? Does a physical store have to sell every product imaginable?

Because the app store is an app commerce platform that other companies list and sell things through. Apps are not accessories to hardware, and splitting hairs on the semantics is kind of banal. Are you aware of what sea-lioning is?

When you buy an app from the App Store. Apple claims the entire price of the app as revenue, pays out the developer and gives the developer a 1099 at the end of the year. My relationship is no more with the third party app developer when I buy an app from the App Store than it is if I buy a third party accessory from the Apple Store or if I buy something from Walmart.

There is no difference.