Live data from Hacker News

Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

vice.com

261–270 of 461 posts

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#261

Yelp is such a slimy company. First they wall off their mobile web reviews to try to force you to download their POS app, they have the whole extortion racket going trying to strongarm restaurants into paying for advertising, and now this. Friendly reminder - if you are on mobile and trying to read a Yelp review and don't want to download their app, simply hold refresh, click "request desktop site" and it will load t…

Probably a very dumb question. Why do sites like Yelp/Quora try very hard to force you to use the app instead of the web site? Isn't it easier to make money on ads on the web? In the Yelp app I don't get any ads. I may be more likely to browse longer in the app I guess.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote Jobs about Dropbox - Yelp is a feature not a product.

Steve Jobs FTW yet again. I thought he was wrong about Dropbox for the longest time. But their latest attempts at "productizing" their service (Adobe / Zoom / Slack / Atlassian / Google Docs / Office integrations, "social" features, etc. etc.) have convinced me that simple file sync, which is all I ever wanted from them, is not enough to sustain a company. Meanwhile the shareholder-induced march downwards continues.

It’s plenty to sustain a company. Just not one that’s publicly traded and has 840 employees.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#264

It's hard to make money as a directory service with Google and Apple Maps around. The shadier they get, the bigger of a sign it is that they're in trouble financially, I would think.

I wish Apple Maps would stop using Yelp as its review service.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#265
post #250
post #184

Makes me think really hard about tech’s blind adoration for the “PayPal mafia.” I find myself seeing more instances of soul crushing amoral behavior from this group of entrepreneurs than just about any other group.

It's worth pointing out that Google shamelessly cloned Yelp and funnels everyone into using their clone when they search for restaurants. If Yelp is in desperate spot its because Google put them there.

Most companies face stiff competition and that's no reason to excuse immoral behavior. Not to mention that Google tried to acquire Yelp and was turned down. Either Yelp's plan to take on Google always included copious dark patterns, or their earlier plans totally failed and this is what they've fallen back on. Either way Yelp can't die soon enough.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#266
post #261

Yelp is such a slimy company. First they wall off their mobile web reviews to try to force you to download their POS app, they have the whole extortion racket going trying to strongarm restaurants into paying for advertising, and now this. Friendly reminder - if you are on mobile and trying to read a Yelp review and don't want to download their app, simply hold refresh, click "request desktop site" and it will load t…

Probably a very dumb question. Why do sites like Yelp/Quora try very hard to force you to use the app instead of the web site? Isn't it easier to make money on ads on the web? In the Yelp app I don't get any ads. I may be more likely to browse longer in the app I guess.

There's been a lot of press here and otherwise lately about how lucrative mobile data is and how lax the permissions can be, particularly compared to "just" a website.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#267
post #142

It feels as though much of tech has gone from helping people accomplish their goals efficiently to a business model of extracting rents while providing no or little value. In this example, what benefit is GrubHub providing to anyone? The person used Yelp solely to look up the phone number of a restaurant. GrubHub deserves 15% of his order for that? Why, because they made a deal to give X% of it to Yelp, and convinced…

> It's leveraging it's market power to make money rather providing customers with any value... feels like society needs to come up with a new word, new idea

The term economists use is "rent seeking behavior". There's a more interesting data play here, but I'll get to that in a sec.

Now, ostensively the value is driving traffic and increasing number of customers.

What they're actually doing is the blitzscaling playbook: become the only channel people go to online when looking for restaurants (last 10 years) and now monetize the captured audience (next 10 years). Because as people have moved online, what else are you going to do? Take down your yelp page?

That's the pessimistic take.

The optimistic take is the data play here. It's confusing, because they said two opposing things:

> Grubhub says it retains these recordings and uploads them to the private page that restaurants use to manage their service so that restaurants can audit them and dispute any errors. Grubhub says it does not use the recordings for any other purpose.

vs.

> "There is a restaurant on the Upper East Side that serves sushi. We worked with them and we said that there's a trend for poke bowls. We suggested that they start adding some of these items to their menu,” Grubhub senior vice president Kevin Kearns said at the hearing. “They did this and within one month, they doubled their orders, and within three months they 7x’ed their orders to 1,600 orders a month..."

So the data play is aggregating what people are ordering and turning that into analytics. Now that 15% take isn't just the cost of online rent, but it's also your cost to get insight into what everyone around you is ordering.

That said, the next question is whether the indian restaurant around the corner is actually going to use grubhub analytics to optimize their menu by placing their matar paneer higher up because that's what's being ordered at similar indian places and grubhub's telling them they can improve conversions by 6.3%, but that's effectively what some engineer or PM at Grubhub thought up.

If that story is believable, then it's a more-than-just-rent-extraction narrative. It's still kinda shitty, but that's why you sell jeans and shovels, not become a gold miner.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#268
post #261

Yelp is such a slimy company. First they wall off their mobile web reviews to try to force you to download their POS app, they have the whole extortion racket going trying to strongarm restaurants into paying for advertising, and now this. Friendly reminder - if you are on mobile and trying to read a Yelp review and don't want to download their app, simply hold refresh, click "request desktop site" and it will load t…

Probably a very dumb question. Why do sites like Yelp/Quora try very hard to force you to use the app instead of the web site? Isn't it easier to make money on ads on the web? In the Yelp app I don't get any ads. I may be more likely to browse longer in the app I guess.

The app can also do things to fine-tune your advertising profile like track your location in the background, etc.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone pay $9.99 a month for Dropbox when you can pay $9.99 for Office 365, get the full office suite for six users with 1TB of storage each? Well, what is Dropbox doing wrong that they have to charge so much more? (Given that offering more products for the same price basically equivalent to charging less per product)

Who's to say they're doing anything wrong? Microsoft is a huge company that can subsidize products using their profits from other products. They book Office 365 revenue as cloud revenue, and they're eager to grow that portion of their business to make Azure look good. So they're basically giving away services and throwing money at it to pad growth for Azure. If anything, it's likely Dropbox's prices are closer to the…

Microsoft separates Office and Productivity from Cloud

https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-commercial-cloud-re...

Commercial cloud revenue was $9.6 billion in the third quarter, up 41 percent from a year ago. Revenue in Microsoft's productivity and business processes unit was $10.2 billion as commercial Office revenue grew 12 percent.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you perhaps in the Bay Area? Yelp has a very strong presence in the Bay Area. However, when I travel to the EU and outside of California, I notice that the quality/quantity of reviews from Yelp vs Google is reversed. People advised me to find restaurants using Google Maps instead. Restaurants owners also put up sign asking to be rated on Google.

I am in the Bay Area, but my biggest use case is when I travel outside the area. I agree with you though, Yelp totally breaks down outside of the USA. Seems to work pretty well within the US though. We found some great places in Wyoming near Yellowstone for example.

I tend to use TripAdvisor more overseas, it feels less shady, though a year ago an app update made it suck battery like nobody's business, and I had to delete it.

Thankfully, last trip (June) it seemed to work fine.

Post reply on HN