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Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

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Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#31

Post by bayindirh »

throwaway542134 wrote: post #24
shawnz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it better than SD Express though, which also supports PCIe and is backwards compatible with existing cards?

I don't think the connector is the problem but the devices you connect to. RPis are notorious for having a poor lifespan due to reading/writing from the SD cards, but I think that's mostly due to the cost tier of a $30 computer.

I'm running a batch of SBCs which boot from SD cards as home or forgettable servers. None of them died due to SD card failure yet. A good SD card with a little optimization keeps the flash media wear out at bay.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#32

Post by akira2501 »

close04 wrote: post #27
trilila wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation doesn't equal inventing new stuff. I think it is quite innovative how they use an old mechanism for a new use case.

It's not a new use case, it's still used to connect a card to a board. Just like the hinged connector used for microSD before this [0]. It's more USB 3.0 type A connector vs. the USB 2.0 type A. Neither the connector itself nor the application are innovative. Which is why nobody is pointing out the particular innovation in the connector. [0] https://www.yamaichi.de/products/connector-solutions/card-co...

> Neither the connector itself nor the implementation are innovative.

This is a market innovation, not a technical one.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#33

Post by discreditable »

tracker1 wrote: post #12

Definitely nice for SFF... but I don't think that higher performing devices will be able to dissipate enough heat from the lid alone. Most PCIe gen 4 SSDs have relatively large heat spreaders because of the load. Similarly, I keep thinking it would be cool to have a GPU socket format that could sit adjacent to the CPU so that a large heat pipe / cooler could be attached to both.

That bracket reminds me a lot of a CPU bracket. It's not hard to imagine a hole in the top so you could mount a heatsink with direct contact to the card.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#34

Post by close04 »

danaris wrote: post #28
close04 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a new use case, it's still used to connect a card to a board. Just like the hinged connector used for microSD before this [0]. It's more USB 3.0 type A connector vs. the USB 2.0 type A. Neither the connector itself nor the application are innovative. Which is why nobody is pointing out the particular innovation in the connector. [0] https://www.yamaichi.de/products/connector-solutions/card-co...

Using it for a smaller NVMe SSD, however, is. Quite clearly. You can call just about anything "not innovative" if you're sufficiently reductionist about it. The idea that the only "true" innovation is some totally unknown, totally revolutionary idea that came completely out of nowhere fully formed is a toxic one that robs people and companies of just praise for coming up with interesting and useful new things, while…

Toshiba calls it an "innovative connector design" referring explicitly to the connector itself. You don't have to be a "reductionist" to see that it's not really that innovative. MicroSD cards have been using the hinged connector for years [0]. Now the fact that they connect this type of card instead of the other type of card is indeed new.

I appreciate them improving on the current situation and I love that I'll get SSD performance with SD convenience but it doesn't have to be innovative for me to do that.

[0] https://www.yamaichi.de/products/connector-solutions/card-co...

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#35

Post by ocdtrekkie »

I can definitely see the perks of the form factor here, and totally see SSD cooling hardware as being the next big thing, and it sounds like they're prepared for that here.

But I mourn how fast the interface format is changing now, because I don't have the hardware to support all of these formats. I've got a handy USB to SATA adapter that did the job for, I don't know, a decade and a half, and now there's eight different types of SSD sockets out there.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#36

Post by kaoD »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #4

We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket. All things considered, that’s not a bad looking socket system. With thermal limitation the issue, it seems BGA+heat sink will still outperform but at the cost of not being upgradable. Still, seems like a fair idea to have a PCIe4 MicroSD.

> We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket.

What are you referring to?

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#37

Post by close04 »

akira2501 wrote: post #32
close04 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a new use case, it's still used to connect a card to a board. Just like the hinged connector used for microSD before this [0]. It's more USB 3.0 type A connector vs. the USB 2.0 type A. Neither the connector itself nor the application are innovative. Which is why nobody is pointing out the particular innovation in the connector. [0] https://www.yamaichi.de/products/connector-solutions/card-co...

> Neither the connector itself nor the implementation are innovative. This is a market innovation, not a technical one.

So this slide [0] describing the connector's design, manufacturing, and operation, with a bullet list of mechanical and electrical features refers to a "market innovation"?

[0] https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14711/Screen%20Shot%202019...

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#39

Post by theobeers »

kaoD wrote: post #36
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #4

We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket. All things considered, that’s not a bad looking socket system. With thermal limitation the issue, it seems BGA+heat sink will still outperform but at the cost of not being upgradable. Still, seems like a fair idea to have a PCIe4 MicroSD.

> We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket. What are you referring to?

Presumably the days when socketed memory was primary storage for PCs.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#40

Post by hawski »

kaoD wrote: post #36
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #4

We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket. All things considered, that’s not a bad looking socket system. With thermal limitation the issue, it seems BGA+heat sink will still outperform but at the cost of not being upgradable. Still, seems like a fair idea to have a PCIe4 MicroSD.

> We’ve come full circle back to primary storage that drops into a socket. What are you referring to?

A cassette of course :)

https://youtu.be/BnHW-f5ayhs?t=108

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