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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

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Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#551

Post by lazyjones »

lsc wrote: post #274
lazyjones wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fear I feel when driving is not fear for my own safety, but fear that my actions (or momentary inattention) might lead to the death of another. Did you watch the video? It's (also) about pedestrian/biker safety measures. All new crash tests cover this and you can see very well that cars brake automatically these days.

I'm not going to watch a video. what sort of person do you think I am? I do have a reasonable knowledge of modern car safety features, and yes, high end (well, high trim level; these features are optional at additional cost on many cars I would call low end.) cars bought in the last few years have automatic braking systems that function reasonably well at low speeds, and that's a great thing that has probably saved m…

> I'm not going to watch a video. what sort of person do you think I am?

I wish I knew what some people find so worthy of downvoting about suggesting to watch a crash test video that demonstrates the current state of pedestrian safety measures in cars. Or, what is scary/offensive about videos in general. But I suppose I don't need to understand every personality on the Internet...

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#552

Post by tom_mellior »

magduf wrote: post #543
novok wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how a lack of uniform culture and trust prevents vending machines elsewhere, or what it has to do with vending machine proliferation? In japan you even have vending machines to pay for your restaurant food inside the restaurant, where your usually paying upfront. And some parking lots have per stall locks that don't let you drive away until you pay. You could argue that is symbolic of lower "trust".

The "vending machines" inside restaurants are only there to increase efficiency and reduce labor needs, because there's a labor shortage of sorts in Japan. For stuff outside, they just don't have problems with vandalism and theft the way America does, so it makes it much more feasible to have lots of vending machines outside: no one is going to deface them or break into them. This is also really useful for bicycling.…

How is this about culture and not about economics? People presumably don't steal bikes for fun but to fence them, because that's the best way for them to keep themselves from starving.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#553

Post by C1sc0cat »

ollie87 wrote: post #458
C1sc0cat wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually commuted long distance > 70 Miles each way? I worked out in the UK it costs (after allowing for tax) £10k pa to commute the 70 miles to central London - and thats not counting the costs of the extra hour and a half out of your day.

Or you could live somewhere like Newark in Nottinghamshire where the train is an hour and ten minutes into Kings Cross and it'll cost you £6,000 a year. Plus house prices/rents are cheaper too. I'm so glad I live basically on the East Coast mainline, it's the only decent line in the entire country.

Apart from when they screwed people living in Bedford and Luton.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#554

Post by magduf »

briandear wrote: post #357
oefrha wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As have been pointed out by multiple people, kids are perfectly capable of taking public transit themselves. Kids under ten might need to be accompanied by a guardian, but there are usually two parents in a household, and some grandparents will help, too. Caretakers can be hired in certain cases. Some family “pool” their kids together too, not unlike in the U.S. where parents would take turns to drive neighbors’ kids…

So basically we change our quality of life to fit some urban ideal? My kids’ grandparents live in a different state and a different country. A child on the BART train? You have got to be kidding. With the insane people, mentally ill, the thieves and the homeless, I would’t expose my kids to having to deal with that nonsense. Cars are awesome. Being forced to share public transportation with a bunch of weirdos isn’t p…

>A child on the BART train? You have got to be kidding. With the insane people, mentally ill, the thieves and the homeless,

Typical American paranoia.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#555

Post by AstralStorm »

mcv wrote: post #451
n4r9 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The US spends about 1% of its budget on agricultural subsidies compared to the EU's 40%.

The EU's budget is tiny, though. It doesn't maintain armies, police, infrastructure, health care or any sort of social security. Farm subsidies are among the few things the EU spends money on. The rest is paid by member states. So this is not a meaningful comparison.

EU budget does subsidize infrastructure and some R&D grants.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#556

Post by marcus_holmes »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #72
zwaps wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last winters it barely snowed in Berlin, so I know quite a few people who kept riding their bikes all through the year. Of course, use your head - if it is damp and then below zero, be careful. Common sense, really. If all fails, public transport is decent enough to get you anywhere on foot. It's not perfect, I think mostly because Berlin is spatially huge and comparably empty. Cities like Paris have a much mo…

Just be aware of those tram tracks riding your bike into them can be deadly. At least in Amsterdam

Yeah, my gf wiped out on those last week. Not fun

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#557

Post by magduf »

minikomi wrote: post #313
konart wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't thing this is what codebolt was talking about. If you can one kid - there is no problem really. Walk him or her to school in the morning, ask grandmother to bring them back etc. When you have more than one - it is entrily possible they will end up going to different schools and after the school one of them had to go to the music shool and the other one to his hockey team or something etc etc. You simply can't…

I hope this works -- street view of in front of a Japanese kindergarten. Electric 2 seater bikes are the name of the game here for 2 child families. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.675605,139.6796798,3a,75y,22...

Yep, that's what I saw in Japan recently too (both electric and non-electric). Tons of bikes had a child seat, some of them had 2 child seats.

I also loved how (as you can see in this photo), people just park their bike the way you park a car: you just leave it there, without locking it to something. Here in America bikes like that would be stolen left and right. But I guess that's one of the big differences between a highly industrialized and developed nation and a 3rd-world one.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#558

Post by patrickaljord »

mcv wrote: post #446
patrickaljord wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland and the Netherlands healthcare is private though people are obligated to get a plan. Works great and cheaper than here in France which is horribly expensive for anyone with a decent wage.

The Dutch and especially Swiss healthcare systems are actually among the most expensive in Europe. France is cheaper per capita.

Yes per capita, that's why I said "for anyone with a decent wage". France has one of the highest unemployment rate in OCDE, so for all these people it is indeed cheap, in fact free. But for those actually making more than the minimum wage (and for anyone making close to a SV salary or the French equivalent), you end up paying way way more than the Dutch and the Swiss.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#559

Post by throw0101a »

H8crilA wrote: post #183
JDiculous wrote: post #123

Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…

It's the case not just in Korea and Japan but in most cities outside of America. It's one of American peculiarities, like checks or no public health care. China has a fantastic subway system in most big cities, for example. I once took a subway ride from the Shenzhen airport to the Hong Kong border, crossed the border, switched to another subway and arrived in downtown Hong Kong. That's around 65km (40 miles) by publ…

> It's the case not just in Korea and Japan but in most cities outside of America. It's one of American peculiarities, like checks or no public health care.

As opposed to the peculiarity of Japan, where cash (often in envelopes) is used for a lot of stuff (instead of cards). :)

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#560

Post by AstralStorm »

martin_a wrote: post #245
r00fus wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about shuttling your kids to school? I know in Japan most kids 6y+ just take themselves on public transport or walking. How is it done in other countries?

Germany: Most (all?) cities have special tickets for pupils. There are separate bus lines in the morning which pick up the pupils from the bus stops and take them directly to school. In the afternoon there are some special lines too, otherwise you just take a normal line with your pupil ticket. That's at least how it worked in my time, like 20+ years ago.

Poland, tickets here are free for kids under 7 and for primary school kids with valid school ID... And 50% discount for higher education. That's in addition to long range school busses.
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