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Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

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Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#111

Post by Balgair »

>“I definitely implore people to forgo the three seconds of convenience to help neighborhood businesses,” he said.

Interesting way to end the article. I think we have all seen lines around the block for the new hotness in local resturants. If the owner is trying to get people in the door like this, then it is likely that these apps are not the culprit in the issues that the owner is facing.

In the article, grubhub points out a business that they helped out by pointing the business to switch to poke' bowls. There are some interesting points about that:

1) Per my reading, they only can point out one example. I did not see any stats or talk about a population, just an anecdote. I may have missed something though, or the writer decided to not use that sound bite.

2) That is consulting. They are mixing referral fees and trying to point out that they are sucessful un-solicited consultants too. This is not initially murky stuff, but it can get mixed up really fast. The incentives are not well aligned.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#112

Post by Wowfunhappy »

hyperbovine wrote: post #46
scarface74 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote Jobs about Dropbox - Yelp is a feature not a product.

Steve Jobs FTW yet again. I thought he was wrong about Dropbox for the longest time. But their latest attempts at "productizing" their service (Adobe / Zoom / Slack / Atlassian / Google Docs / Office integrations, "social" features, etc. etc.) have convinced me that simple file sync, which is all I ever wanted from them, is not enough to sustain a company. Meanwhile the shareholder-induced march downwards continues.

> have convinced me that simple file sync, which is all I ever wanted from them, is not enough to sustain a company.

Is the problem that it's not enough to sustain a company, or that it's not enough to sustain investors who unreasonable expect constant growth?

I'd posit that Dropbox has a sustainable business, and that their changes will likely hurt the long-term viability of that business.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#113

Post by elliekelly »

master-litty wrote: post #41
ilikehurdles wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.yelp-support.com/article/Does-Yelp-extort-small-... I've kind of gotten tired of diving into the whole "yelp extorted my brother's cousin's friend's coworker's business for better ratings" anecdotal story schtick so I'm just going to link the above -- or are you suggesting they're getting away with lying on official communication? If yelp is altering reviews for paying clients, please show the evidence as…

Fascinating. I totally fell for the drama and didn't realize it. Thanks for posting that link. A good reminder to be critical about what you hear.

I don't use Yelp so my opinions are both irrelevant and formed entirely by what I've heard from others. I'm not sure I believe Yelp hides/shows reviews based on whether businesses are willing to pay but I'm not sure I put too much weight in the above posted link either.

If Yelp's review algorithm has nothing to do with advertising spend then it should be fairly easy to have someone from PwC/Deloitte/E&Y look at the algorithm and issue a letter saying advertising spend isn't a factor. I'd give a lot more weight to a third-party review than I do the Buzzfeed article (not Buzzfeed News) and academic study on the ethics and incentives behind review fraud that Yelp has cited.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#114

Post by ac29 »

sundayedition wrote: post #5

I've found Google Maps review quality and quantity improved over the last few years so it's rare that I'd even open Yelp in recent months. With this, I'm deleting my Yelp app.

Google maps has definitely improved, but they are even worse than most review sites in the near worthlessness of their review scores. The vast majority of restaurants are rated between 4 and 5 stars, with the difference between a 4.1 and 4.6 being huge - the former being 50/50 that its good, the latter being the sort of place worth waiting in line for. The closest Michelin starred restaurant to me is rated 0.2 points higher than the forgettable greek restaurant across the parking lot from where I work, and less than 1 point better than taco bell.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#115

Post by kjeetgill »

largbae wrote: post #77
ilikehurdles wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.yelp-support.com/article/Does-Yelp-extort-small-... I've kind of gotten tired of diving into the whole "yelp extorted my brother's cousin's friend's coworker's business for better ratings" anecdotal story schtick so I'm just going to link the above -- or are you suggesting they're getting away with lying on official communication? If yelp is altering reviews for paying clients, please show the evidence as…

I think the challenge with finding firsthand reports on HN is that the owners of small brick-and-mortar businesses that Yelp is alleged to exploit are not well represented in this community. Having said that, I have firsthand experience in having my own review of such a business censored: 6 months ago I wrote a review for the RazzleDazzle Barber Shop in Riverview, FL. Great little shop, I was surprised that it had ze…

It's their anti-fraud system. Reviews get moved to Recommend after the user passes some minimum anti-fraud Activity threshold.

If that was your first review, it's almost always unrecommended at first. This stops a lot of the "ask your friends and families" for 5 stars sorts of reviews.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#116

Post by [deleted] »

ajross wrote: post #109
futureastronaut wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps is also shoving Grubhub down our throats. Every time I try to call a restaurant's phone numer in the new Maps app, I end up accidentally opening a Grubhub tab in Chrome.

I... can't confirm this at all. Opened maps, clicked on a restaurant, selected "call", and brought up the phone app. The only way I can get to a delivery provider is to click a button marked "Delivery". And even there it seems to be suggesting DoorDash to me, even for restaurants that I can find listed on GrubHub's site.

[deleted]

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#117

Post by ilikehurdles »

kbenson wrote: post #87
ilikehurdles wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm low on sleep today, so I'm honestly having a hard time parsing this argument. Are you saying that Yelp and other businesses are sufficiently afraid of class-action lawsuits that they're not willing to do shady things? Businesses doing shady things will dance around the allegation of shadiness with clever language, legalese, and PR-talk to avoid saying the truth. They will rarely intentionally give an unequivocal…

Or... just informally incentivize employees to do the wrong thing and make sure they have (or refuse to remove availability of) the tools they use to do so. If yelp has salespeople that can alter reviews or how they show in any way, and those salespeople are incentivized to hit sales numbers, some subset of them will use the tools at their disposal to facilitate their sales. In this theoretical scenario, is Yelp exto…

>If yelp has salespeople that can alter reviews or how they show in any way, and those salespeople are incentivized to hit sales numbers, some subset of them will use the tools at their disposal to facilitate their sales.

I've been threatened by SEO sales people that they can hurt my site's search rankings if I don't sign up for their service. There are robocallers[1] that pretend to be Google employees making these threats. Does that mean they have direct access into Google's database, or even the power to fulfill their threats? Do you think that local businesses, often run by much less technically-literate people, aren't hit by the same kind of scam for their online reviews?

[1]:https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-robocall-scam-were-suin...

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#118

Post by la_barba »

oliveshell wrote: post #75
basch wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are other companies that have apps but not sites (or their site is just a download button) slimy? Should yelp not be allowed to pivot from website to app? I might not agree with that strategic direction as a customer, but its well within their right as a company to choose what they want to be.

No one is arguing that Yelp shouldn’t be allowed to funnel customers to their app. We’re just condemning the choice as shitty and user-hostile.

I suppose if the app provided a better experience, then it wouldn't be user-hostile.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#119

Post by wtvanhest »

unfunco wrote: post #107
wtvanhest wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is just a product over a long enough time scale

I don't think that's the gist of what was being said, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone quote themselves so tawdrily before today.

Updated, but seriously, the Steve Jobs quote is tired. Dropbox is a legit company with a good product. They are as much of a company as Apple was with just a niche computer product.

Steve Jobs made the comment because he probably realized that storage was a big business and he also realized that Dropbox is a direct competitor with iCloud.

Apple out performed Dropbox, but Dropbox is certainly a real company.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#120

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #112
hyperbovine wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs FTW yet again. I thought he was wrong about Dropbox for the longest time. But their latest attempts at "productizing" their service (Adobe / Zoom / Slack / Atlassian / Google Docs / Office integrations, "social" features, etc. etc.) have convinced me that simple file sync, which is all I ever wanted from them, is not enough to sustain a company. Meanwhile the shareholder-induced march downwards continues.

> have convinced me that simple file sync, which is all I ever wanted from them, is not enough to sustain a company. Is the problem that it's not enough to sustain a company, or that it's not enough to sustain investors who unreasonable expect constant growth? I'd posit that Dropbox has a sustainable business, and that their changes will likely hurt the long-term viability of that business.

Long-term viability is a funny thing financially. If a company is worth their discounted future earnings, then a long lasting low number and a quickly dying high number might be the same. As far as investors are concerned, being a long-term viable business (in the usual sense) might not matter, even with the big-picture view.
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