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Amazon Is a Monopoly

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Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#281
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those scenarios are where there was a terms of service violation. When Google or Apple decide to ban their competition for no reason other than it being competition, it's anti-competitive.

So since Apple sells third party hardware at Apple.com, should they be forced to sell Dells?

Apple stores only sells accessories to their manufactured products, and isn't a retail platform.

If Apple opened stores that sold a wide range a goods, including from other sellers, and then banned Dell, then yes, your hypothetical would be anticompetitive.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#282
Solid interview. But one thing I saw that was missing was that Amazon also doesn't charge itself the 15% marketplace fee (it varies slightly depending on category but most are 15%) that it charges 3rd party sellers. Since Amazon directly sells tens of millions of items, it had at least a 15% head start on every single one of those products in terms of price competition. Since we're talking retail here, the margins on most items don't exceed 15% in many cases. The fact that they have been allowed to charge 3rd party sellers this fee while not facing it themselves or being forced to stop selling products at all if they are going to run the marketplace is mind-boggling to me.

At the previous company I worked for, they were very careful about this issue. It was a fintech company that had 20+ different lines of business/revenue. Due to the nature of the fintech space, certain business units wanted information/data/services from the other divisions. For example, the index and ETF team wanted corporate actions data from the team that monitored all corporate actions globally and delivered it via a standardized feed. The ETF and index teams were forced to take money from their budget and actually buy the service from the other team to avoid legal issues. They knew that if other ETF and index providers found out they had to pay for the product but our internal team got everything for free and could then undercut them and charge less for the ETF and index products, I guaran-fucking-tee you they would have sued us. Every division in the company was financially separated for exactly this reason. There should be some sort of class-action lawsuit on this basis from all sellers against Amazon, in my opinion. Amazon should be forced to separate that business that actually sells its own products into a new legal entity and have to pay the fees.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#283
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manufacturing cost for DVDs is close to zero so sellers have room to cut prices. They aren't comparable to appliances.

Licencing and content production cost money, though.

People seem to forget that the manufacture of the final saleable product is but a fraction of the cost to produce the product. While the individual saleable item might be cheap to manufacture, there are many more expenses that are paid for through the sale of the product. Licensing and production definitely costs, but there are other day-to-day expenses as well. The office staff that is not production, but is necessary to keep the facilities functioning also must be considered (HR, secretaries, assistants, legal, janitorial, etc).

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one split up Facebook? Amazon? What would it look like?

Facebook is easy. Break off Instagram and WhatsApp. Those acquisitions should never have been allowed. Amazon might look like splitting retail from AWS or similar.

Great, now you have a $480 billion company and two $20 billion companies.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But everyone does lobbying. What? Your local Cafe does lobbying? Only magacorps do that, and yes, they use it to protect themselves from competition. And no, protecting yourself from competition using lobbying, monopoly rights, patents, regulations means exactly this: big biz uses government to ensure its monopoly/oligopoly, aka governments creating monopolies. >Comcast like that is weird to prove a point of governm…

It’s disingenuous to do faux ignorance by acting like you don’t know what I roughly meant when I said everyone. You know I wasn’t talking about your local cafe. Or even a $10M/year company.

> It’s disingenuous to do faux ignorance by acting like you don’t know what I roughly meant when I said everyone. You know I wasn’t talking about your local cafe. Or even a $10M/year company.

Then articulate your point more clearly.

Sure, many the American megacorps are using the government for their own sake. That's exactly proving why US is such a crony state, where big corps are protected from competition by a huge apparatus of bureaucracy.

What's your point? If they use the government it's not the government's fault? Government is literally a mean of establishing oligopolies and shifting the bargaining balance from people to corporations.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#286
post #258

It's not a monopoly under the dictionary definition: >the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service. It is maybe under the Sherman Act: >“Monopoly power” is generally understood to mean “the power to control prices or exclude competition”. I wish when people use words in a different way to the dictionary meaning they'd say so. Otherwise it leads to a whole lot of pointless "O…

I find that there's a huge amount of discussion that basically amounts to definitional disagreements. I'll cede definitions like "monopoly" for the sake of a discussion and continue to use them otherwise. The trouble is those are uninteresting questions. "Is Amazon a monopoly?" immediately takes the more interesting discussion "what should we do about the size of Amazon" off the table and leaves us to bicker about wh…

Most likely nothing will happen with respect to these large companies because generally speaking prosecution only happens when the company's status as a monopoly negatively affects the consumer (allegedly). The criteria is usually price of goods/services. It's possible this might include things like privacy violations or data mishandling in the future, but I doubt it.

There's a DoJ memo, or something similar, that spurred this recent-ish change in policy but i can't seem to find it.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#287

Solid interview. But one thing I saw that was missing was that Amazon also doesn't charge itself the 15% marketplace fee (it varies slightly depending on category but most are 15%) that it charges 3rd party sellers. Since Amazon directly sells tens of millions of items, it had at least a 15% head start on every single one of those products in terms of price competition. Since we're talking retail here, the margins on…

Your description of your company sounds like it might be more of a transfer pricing issue than an antitrust issue. If the companies all have their own tax situations, then transactions between them need to be "arm's length" so that income isn't shifted from one company to another without the proper entity paying tax on it. That's generally the reason for companies under the same umbrella charging for things.

I think you're on to something about the competitive advantage that comes from those fees though. Matt Levine (who writes for Bloomberg) often mentions how odd it is that it's illegal for, say, two plumbers with their own companies to get together and agree to set their prices higher, but it's perfectly legal for those same plumbers to form a company together and then set their prices wherever they want. What's "anticompetitive" for two individuals is ok for a firm, unless the firm gets too big... It definitely makes you wonder if the definition of too big is actually set too high.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#288
post #258

It's not a monopoly under the dictionary definition: >the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service. It is maybe under the Sherman Act: >“Monopoly power” is generally understood to mean “the power to control prices or exclude competition”. I wish when people use words in a different way to the dictionary meaning they'd say so. Otherwise it leads to a whole lot of pointless "O…

"Monopolization Defined"

The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. Most Section 2 claims involve the conduct of a firm with a leading market position, although Section 2 of the Sherman Act also bans attempts to monopolize and conspiracies to monopolize. As a first step, courts ask if the firm has "monopoly power" in any market. This requires in-depth study of the products sold by the leading firm, and any alternative products consumers may turn to if the firm attempted to raise prices. Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident. Here courts evaluate the anticompetitive effects of the conduct and its procompetitive justifications.

"Market Power"

Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#289
post #2

How we actually define a company to be a monopoly seems to be somewhat arbitrary? I agree that Amazon engages in anticompetitive behaviour but I'm not sure that it can control prices or exclude competition to that extent? I mean every company can affect that, at what point does it become problematic?

The definition is on of law, regulation, and court interpretation.

"Monopolization Defined"

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#290

This is an attempt to divert attention from real monopolies like Comcast and healthcare monsters. What we really need in the tech space is UK-style laws to enforce competition between ISPs, GDPR-style laws to protect personal data and CA-style prohibition on NDAs. But politicans won't get paid for any of this. Instead they go for easy and profitable targets, such as pretending to care that Amazon is a monopoly.

Stronger anti-trust protections and enforcement will be a benefit all 'round.
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