Oh yes, there indeed will be no more mass shooting if you close down %SITE_NAME%.
8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
951–960 of 1001 posts
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#952UPDATE - It's now back up on ZeroNet. Install & run https://zeronet.io/ and then go to http://127.0.0.1:43110/1DdPHedr5Tz55EtQWxqvsbEXPdc4uCVi9D Amusingly, it's now the #1 site on ZeroNet, with even more users than then ZeroNet homepage.
This site looks like 8chan but has actually nothing to do with the original 8chan. However, for better or worse, pandoras box of decentralized uncensurable internet for the masses is now officially open.
Yeah, taking down 8chan will certainly get the word out about ZeroNet (and similar) at least.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#953Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For example, I don't think my freedom of speech should trump Cloudflare's or Voxility's right to freedom of association. Right, but those only produce a conflict in a very specific case and your right to free speech should be defended by your government/peers regardless of where you do the caching for your blog (or whatever). I have a huge issue with this modern relativist approach, because it leads to the situatio…
Disagree. "Absolutely positively absolute rights" are taking decent heuristics and turning them into thought-terminating clichés. Let's go with the "right to live". Consider questions such as: - Who has that right? You, or your body? If you don't want to live, should you be forced to? What if you're suffering so badly it's debilitating, and this state won't improve until you eventually die? Is living in a state of en…
> Who has that right? You, or your body?
You are your body, they are the same thing unless you can stop being in your body this is a moot point.
> If you don't want to live, should you be forced to?
Rights are freedoms in order to have the right to do something you must also have the right to not do it, or it's not a right.
> How do you trade lives for lives?
Well you don't thats the point. If you don't respect some one else's rights then there is no reason for them to respect yours.
> Do you pull the trigger and save innocent victims
The whole good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns is a myth according to FBI statistics.[1]
The point saintPirelli made is that people focus too much on hypotheticals (what if we can stop shooters by shooting them) rather than accepting the right and focusing on the reality(how do we prevent shooters from killing people), your argument demonstrates this.
[1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fbi-report-active-shooters_b_...
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#954Earlier quoted context omitted.
Makes me wonder how many people like GPL and free software. One of the core tenants of free software is the ability to do anything with it (freedom 0). This includes being able to do evil. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html The original JSON license is even deemed not free because it limits the ability to use it for Evil. https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#JSON There is a reason for this decis…
> There is a reason for this decision [...] You seem to misunderstand that reason. It is because qualifying the evil is best done out of the license, and not because qualifying the evil is universally bad. It should be noted that the Debian Free Software Guidelines words that decision as "no discrimination" and this choice is not light---it is there to prevent prejudicial behaviors by licenses. And that doesn't mean…
> It is because qualifying the evil is best done out of the license
The example in case does not qualify what counts as evil, only that it bans evil. It thus leaves it to others, outside of the license, to qualify evil when they determine how the license applies. Thus the license the FSF rejects does what you claim should be done.
>The DFSG doesn't prevent you from doing evil with a free software and face the postjudicial consequence at all.
It does suggest not using licenses that would increase the legal consequences of doing such evil.
>because 8chan was blamed because it didn't even acknowledge the post-judgement.
Does encryption acknowledge the post-judgment of all the evil it enables?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#955I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…
I've lost good friends to 4chan/8chan. They were obsessed. At first it was cat pictures and memes, but it went way downhill from there. I've watched those sites cause the transition from normal, interesting, reasonable, open minded, intelligent, happy human beings, to horrible inexcusable pieces of shit who I never want to have anything to do with ever again. It's not just that they inspire a few shooters and mass mu…
> once-reasonable people to be deeply and irredeemably terrible in many other ways
Like otaku. Or furries. Can't imagine anything more terribly dangerous than furry otaku spreading GNU Manifesto and forcing you to install Gentoo. Awful place!
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#956Earlier quoted context omitted.
What makes you say it's unchecked though? These are anonymous imageboards where ANYONE can say ANYTHING, there isn't anything stopping you from challenging them? Part of me wonders if we should be taking better advantage of this opportunity to reach out the people posting. Mental illness is clearly in play, but can't we as a society do better? We should be reaching out to these people and at least trying to wrestle t…
> We should be reaching out to these people and at least trying to wrestle them back to sanity. If you believe that's what we should be doing, why aren't you doing that? There are people right here in this thread you could be reaching out to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20617883
How do you know I'm not? Why would you expect to be more successful on hacker news than one of those open forums?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#957Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've lost good friends to 4chan/8chan. They were obsessed. At first it was cat pictures and memes, but it went way downhill from there. I've watched those sites cause the transition from normal, interesting, reasonable, open minded, intelligent, happy human beings, to horrible inexcusable pieces of shit who I never want to have anything to do with ever again. It's not just that they inspire a few shooters and mass mu…
I used to go on 4chan as a teenager. It was always "edgy" but only recently (since roughly around gamergate and Elliot Rodger, which is also when 8chan started) has it begun to seriously drift to the far-right. White nationalists saw that as an opportunity to radicalize teenagers to their cause and it's still ongoing. There is a whole cottage industry of people attempting to radicalize jaded white teens and "skeptics…
I'm wondering since other commenters wrote that even twitter is filled with white nationalists. I don't think you can blame some random internet platform for the world's problems. It's just that they make the problems far more visible because they are echo chambers that focus around one particular ideology.
So what exactly causes white nationalism to be rising everywhere, not just on 8chan?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#958Earlier quoted context omitted.
What makes you say it's unchecked though? These are anonymous imageboards where ANYONE can say ANYTHING, there isn't anything stopping you from challenging them? Part of me wonders if we should be taking better advantage of this opportunity to reach out the people posting. Mental illness is clearly in play, but can't we as a society do better? We should be reaching out to these people and at least trying to wrestle t…
the current direction of these solutions really feels like the technological equivalent of 'solving' the homelessness crisis via hostile architecture. putting spikes on every bench and doorstep doesn't make anyone less homeless but it makes them less visible so you can feel less bad about it. turning the internet into an increasingly obfuscated series of walled gardens doesn't improve the wellbeing of anyone particul…
I think you are spot on, I also think you should watch your language in that people will use it is an excuse to ignore the painful truth of the very important point you are making:
"more and more i'm lead to believe that the compassion and empathy of the sensible majority is largely performative and on a fundamentally emotional level they just want heads to roll irrelative of any actual justice"
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#959My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…
Your argument effectively says: 'people are too stupid to be trusted with their freedom'. I get that this is an unpopular opinion, but bad things will happen if people are to be free.
But smart enough to carry guns, eh?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#960Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But rights are inherently social No, the founding fathers specifically said that freedom of speech is a God given right and not something which the government gives to a person, instead the government simply recognizes that right. They specifically said freedom of speech is a "Natural" right. Right to clean water is not a right, right to education is not a natural right in their terms. Right to speech, right to sel…
The founding fathers enumerated rights like "free speech" because those were novel (not entirely new, but fairly novel) notions at the time. What many folks (often, seemingly willingly) fail to understand is that those rights were never intended to be parsed in a naive, simplistic way that supersedes the rights of others. The most obvious example would be speech that causes others to be killed: you have a right to fr…
> The founding fathers enumerated rights like "free speech" because those were novel (not entirely new, but fairly novel) notions at the time.
Uh, your history classes have really failed you. These rights weren't novel, they were explicitly enshrined in the English Bill of Rights in 1689. Some of the other rights (particularly debtors' rights) date back to the Magna Carta in 1215.
> That's why you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater and cause a stampede that kills people, etc.
For the record, you're citing a 1919 US Supreme Court case that has been overturned. The current standard for free speech in the US is Brandenburg v Ohio [1], which holds that it is constitutionally-protected free speech to advocate violent overthrow of the government. Only speech that amounts to incitement of "imminent lawless action" is prohibited. Note, of course, that the freedom of speech only applies to the government's ability to restrict speech for its content (which, in the US, is extremely limited); the ability of private parties to choose whether or not to provide a platform for speech is considered freedom of association and does not rely at all on any of these decisions.
[1] For what it's worth, the actual speech given by Brandenburg is basically the same sort of speech you'll find in these manifestos.