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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

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Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#441

Post by krzyk »

exergy wrote: post #365
briandear wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checks? France loves checks and use them more than Americans. No public health care? That isn’t true either. Medicaid and Medicare are public health care. Another legitimate peculiarity of Americans is the vastly higher disposable income compared to most other countries. Even with all of the “free” stuff, the French have lower wages and far less disposable income than Americans.

The French have the RIB system, wherein you can send a snapshot of what your account details are, and the bills are automatically deducted from there. In practice, that means you need to use cheques MUCH less frequently than in the US. What's worse, the US doesn't have an easy way to transfer money electronically between banks! Thus requiring even more cheques.

Why would you need checks at all if you can just pay by card or transfer money using your bank online page?

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#442

Post by nickez »

vladojsem wrote: post #407
goodcanadian wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way every stop costs you 5 minutes, more like 1 minute. I am not a fan of buses because they are in the same traffic as cars plus they have to stop as you say. There are some mitigations like dedicated bus lanes that can swing the speed equation back in favour of buses. What you really want, however, is feeder buses taking people to the train, and it is easy to design a rail system that beats cars for spe…

1 minute with the vehicle slowing down and speeding up again? If it is bus it goes to the bus stop, other cars have to allow it to go back to the main road. Edit: 5 minutes would be way too much if I think about it again - you are right.

You don't have to allow cars to go on the same lanes as buses. In Europe it is very common with separate bus lanes.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#443

Post by krzyk »

rpedela wrote: post #371
useerup wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is public health care in US. Medicare for old people, Medicaid for poor people, and anyone without insurance can go to the ER. It may not be great, but it does exist. There is some public healthcare but no universal healthcare. ER is not healthcare. You do not get treatment for chronic diseases, cancer etc. ER only treats you for the life or health threatening consequences of not getting treatment.

For cancer, yes. For chronic diseases that can treated with a pill like heart disease and diabetes, they will prescribe the pills. People should use the word universal if that is what they mean.

Most people outside US when they say public healthcare they mean what's known in US as universal one.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#444

Post by rsynnott »

briandear wrote: post #357
oefrha wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As have been pointed out by multiple people, kids are perfectly capable of taking public transit themselves. Kids under ten might need to be accompanied by a guardian, but there are usually two parents in a household, and some grandparents will help, too. Caretakers can be hired in certain cases. Some family “pool” their kids together too, not unlike in the U.S. where parents would take turns to drive neighbors’ kids…

So basically we change our quality of life to fit some urban ideal? My kids’ grandparents live in a different state and a different country. A child on the BART train? You have got to be kidding. With the insane people, mentally ill, the thieves and the homeless, I would’t expose my kids to having to deal with that nonsense. Cars are awesome. Being forced to share public transportation with a bunch of weirdos isn’t p…

Your child is probably realistically safer on a train than in your car. Deaths due to traffic accidents per year are much, _much_ greater than deaths on trains through all causes, per passenger km. Of course, people aren't great at assessing risk.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#445

Post by sqren »

briandear wrote: post #372
flexie wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why people are down voting you, but I think this time it may not be the general HN negativity, but simply because they think you are attempting a bad joke. This is exactly how many parents in Copenhagen drive their kids around. I would say that around half of all young parents in Copenhagen get a transporter bike like this one. We were leaving Copenhagen for America shortly after our youngest was born but ot…

We have transporters in the US, they are called cars. And they have air conditioning. The entire world doesn’t have to be just like the Netherlands. Try riding one of those transporter bikes in the Colorado mountains in winter or in south Florida in the summer.

Sure, this doesn't work everywhere. But think of Los Angeles. Very high population density, apart from a few hills it's mostly flat and the climate is nice. To get to any place 1 mile away I'd have to go by car. Often there is congestion and I have to wait in traffic. Plus, there is no direct route to the place so have to go a huge detour - perhaps even shortly on a highway. This could be so much easier and healthier by bike - if the city was built for this.

Bottom-line: some cities can never be be great for bikes. But most can but just aren't.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#446

Post by mcv »

patrickaljord wrote: post #410
useerup wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No public health care? That isn’t true either. Medicaid and Medicare are public health care. I think you know that "public healthcare" was referring to universal healthcare in this context. US is the only western democracy without universal healthcare.

Switzerland and the Netherlands healthcare is private though people are obligated to get a plan. Works great and cheaper than here in France which is horribly expensive for anyone with a decent wage.

The Dutch and especially Swiss healthcare systems are actually among the most expensive in Europe. France is cheaper per capita.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#447

Post by sgift »

ensiferum wrote: post #429
sgift wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used the S-Bahn for 20 years (nowadays I can use the U-Bahn) and sure, it has its problems, but you are very, very hyperbolic. Most of the time it works just fine, whether the weather is good or bad. Sometimes the central tunnel is blocked, which is a problem for a system with one tunnel. That's why we build a second one. Meanwhile, cars are stuck in traffic almost all the time. The only way to cross the city in…

That's just BS. Do you work for DB? ;-) Sure the U-Bahn is slightly better but with SBahn.. "störung" or "zug fällt aus" is the norm. Off the top of my head the last 5~6 rides I've taken with SBahn every single time the train was either: - late - a service was skipped - broke down half way through the journey Come to think of it actually just last week I was forced to take the train and ofc the next service "zug fäll…

I don't work for DB, thanks for asking ;-)

I just did a quick vote with my coworkers who travel by S-Bahn/train every day: Out of all their trips they take one got cancelled or was late this and last week. That's for ten people and using it every day.

I have the feeling you almost never use S-Bahn and think because you had bad luck with the few trips you do all of S-Bahn must always be late/broken.

edit: Full disclosure, there seems to be a breakdown in service (because of a problem in the tunnel) right now.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#448

Post by mcv »

Signez wrote: post #384
briandear wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checks? France loves checks and use them more than Americans. No public health care? That isn’t true either. Medicaid and Medicare are public health care. Another legitimate peculiarity of Americans is the vastly higher disposable income compared to most other countries. Even with all of the “free” stuff, the French have lower wages and far less disposable income than Americans.

> Checks? France loves checks and use them more than Americans. I am afraid your data is outdated: it is now used for less than 15% of payments, mainly by old people or for C2C payments. I am in my late twenties and have emitted only 3 checks from my account, in my entire life.

15% is still a lot more than in many other countries. Checks are certainly on the way out, but in rural southern France, there are still places where you can pay with check but not with pin card.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#449

Post by donohoe »

rayiner wrote: post #170

I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…

As someone who has been a commuter on public transportation in Dublin, London, and New York I can attest that time is not the only measurement.

For many of us it’s a quiet time or when we read a book, crossword, game, or catchup on news before (and after) work.

Even if driving were a bit faster you can’t do that at the same time.

(My current commute is 25 min and I think it’s too short)

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#450

Post by isostatic »

davesmith1983 wrote: post #439
isostatic wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was far quicker to walk a mile to Twyford station, get the train to Ealing, and the tube to White City (or fast train to Paddington and tube to Shepherds Bush now) than to drive. It was a long time ago, and I don't work in Shepherds Bush any more, but the trip today would be 0835 - leave home 0856 - get slow train to London 0935 - arrive Ealing 0950 - arrive White City 0955 - arrive at office Or 0840 - leave home…

Interesting tbh if it was the same amount of time I would just drive in. Outside of London the train is always slower. I used to live in Manchester and get the train into Stoke. Driving was always faster without exception. Generally it was cheaper as well (I have a crappy old diesel astra that is even cheaper to repair and I will drive it til the wheels fall off).

All things being equal I'd rather take the train - you can read, work, watch TV

The main benefit of driving is not having to wait for a specific train.

From where I live in south cheshire, it's quicker to get the train into Manchester than drive (although quicker to drive to Stoke than train). That's with a 0930 arrival in Picadilly Gardens.

Same to get to Cardiff, Birmingham and certainly London (2h15 to Euston, vs 2h40 to the M25 with no traffic)

If I had to be in Picadilly Gardens for 0900 though it would be faster to drive thanks to the train times.

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