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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

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Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#331

Post by piotr1212 »

wozniacki wrote: post #300
shalmanese wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they need to walk 40 minutes? In countries with good public school systems, all of the public schools are equally acceptable so you just send them to the nearest one which is generally less than a mile walk away.

I think you're living in a make-believe world of homogeneity. There are vast differences between the quality of schooling - both public or private - even within global metropolises like NYC, London, Paris & Tokyo. Its downright laughable to assume otherwise.

Probably depends on the country. Here in the Netherlands the difference of quality is really small between public elementary schools. Private schools are practically non-existent.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#332

Post by Sharlin »

codebolt wrote: post #211
oefrha wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having moved from somewhere with working public transportation to the United States (and having lived here for close to a decade), I can assure you it’s not tourist impression.

How many kids do you have? Any more than one and car becomes necessary in my experience.

In my experience as a kid in a three-child family without a car, it worked fine. Though agreed that it would've been trickier if any of us had had some gear-intensive hobby like ice hockey.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#333

Post by nraynaud »

dwd wrote: post #302
arkh wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure why you're getting down-voted Maybe because just speaking on the phone in traffic makes a lot less attentive so you're prone to create accidents.

I would consider talking hands-free (if you're holding a phone you deserve to lose your license) no more distracting than listening to music. There are worst things like eating or talking to someone else in the car. (look at the road not the person when you're talking)

actually it is and that has been tested. People on the phone drive more or less like drunk people. It's because of brain engagement.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#334

Post by vinay427 »

goodcanadian wrote: post #311
lanevorockz wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are ignoring the number one problem. Population Density, dense areas need public transport less dense areas require custom transport. You argument here is against small towns and in favour or ultra dense cities. Public transport is just a mean to complain.

I absolutely hate this argument. In Europe, you take the train and there is literal farm land in between stations. While there are lots of small towns and villages close together in a way that you don't necessarily see in North America, the average density is considerably less than Los Angeles, for example. There is no good reason LA couldn't be crisscrossed by trains instead of by freeways.

This doesn't even seem to follow, in my experience, and their argument definitely makes sense to me as someone that's lived in an urban European city, an urban American city, and some American suburbs and traveled around all of these places extensively.

Why do trains work well in many European countries? When there's farmland between stations (or even between some bus stops in the city where I currently live), it means that because you normally want to go somewhere that's not farmland, you're very likely to want to go somewhere near a station. The density around specific points (train stations, bus/tram plazas, etc.) is particularly high which makes the last-mile or last-kilometer problem largely a non-issue.

If you build this in the LA metro area, it might serve the people who live very close to stations well, but everyone else who lives somewhere in the middle between two stations (which would be a higher percentage than people living in European farmland) would need to find a way to get home from the station.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#335

Post by systemtest »

konart wrote: post #243
namesbc wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world where instead of having to strap your screaming kids in to a car seat for an hour drive in traffic, you walked along a pedestrian street, your kids kicking a ball around, you visit a couple stores, see your kids off to their school, and then walk a couple more blocks to work. When school is over your kids walk safely back home by themselves because there aren't cars out there threatening their lives.…

I don't thing this is what codebolt was talking about. If you can one kid - there is no problem really. Walk him or her to school in the morning, ask grandmother to bring them back etc. When you have more than one - it is entrily possible they will end up going to different schools and after the school one of them had to go to the music shool and the other one to his hockey team or something etc etc. You simply can't…

Since the age of 11 I went to school by myself. Sports, dentist appointments and doctors too. It's very common here in Europe and I don't even live in a big city. I see kids on their bikes with a big hockey stick poking out their backpack almost daily.

You mention 40 minute walking distance, that's three kilometres for a child or about 10 minutes by bicycle. Or perhaps five stops on a tram or subway.

It took a lot of stress off my parents that my brother and me were independent from a young age. Living in a society where you don't need cars gives you that flexibility and ease.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#336

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

rayiner wrote: post #170

I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…

I prefer my current commute (by bus in an European city) to a shorter commute by car. While I'm on the bus, I read an ebook, HN, use a Duolingo-like app for language learning, or play some mobile games. All of these are things that I'd do at another time in the day anyway, so I am not really wasting time, as I would be if I had to drive.

By the way, is having 50% more disposable income really being richer if you may need to pay six-figure amounts if you need surgery?

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#337

Post by pferde »

lenomad wrote: post #309
pferde wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so you're that weirdo who always makes everyone around him in the vehicle listen to his loud phone conversations, making it next to impossible to focus on a book, or whatever else they were trying to do. :)

I think the GP's point is that talking on phone can be done without disturbing anybody else when you're in your own car

Ah, I seem to have misread GGP. My apologies.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#338

Post by pferde »

dwd wrote: post #302
arkh wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure why you're getting down-voted Maybe because just speaking on the phone in traffic makes a lot less attentive so you're prone to create accidents.

I would consider talking hands-free (if you're holding a phone you deserve to lose your license) no more distracting than listening to music. There are worst things like eating or talking to someone else in the car. (look at the road not the person when you're talking)

Listening to music is passive (yes, even if you happen to be singing along, as you're just parroting memorized lyrics), whereas during a phone call, you have to focus on what the other party is saying, and formulate sentences to answer them.

That affects your attention on driving.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#340

Post by flexie »

sqren wrote: post #312
codebolt wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many kids do you have? Any more than one and car becomes necessary in my experience.

To the people who say you need a car if you have kids - this is how we do it in Copenhagen: https://live.staticflickr.com/3662/3465284112_5aab494014_b.j... A transporter bike can carry 2-3 kids easily. It's the most convenient, cheap and healthy option. As soon as the kids are old enough they get their own bike. Of course, it's convenient to have access to a car a couple of times a month. But definitely not on a dail…

Not sure why people are down voting you, but I think this time it may not be the general HN negativity, but simply because they think you are attempting a bad joke.

This is exactly how many parents in Copenhagen drive their kids around. I would say that around half of all young parents in Copenhagen get a transporter bike like this one.

We were leaving Copenhagen for America shortly after our youngest was born but otherwise we would have biked the kids around as well.

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