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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

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Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#321

Post by ginko »

adrianN wrote: post #307
virgilp wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? SF is one of the best, IMO. You can actually take long walks, it actually has a subway (plus busses, trams), it has sidewalks almost everywhere..... sure, less parks than one would like/ a bit too much concrete, lots of homeless people, etc. but hey, it's a big USA city, what did you expect? Compare it to e.g. the nearby San Jose - SF is so much better that it's not even funny. What US city would you consider…

You can walk in SF, I also did it, but the difference is that you don't really see much of the city if you do, compared to Berlin, London, or Tokyo. In those cities you can go from pretty much anywhere in the city to anywhere in less than an hour with public transport and on foot. Less than half an hour if you restrict yourself to the touristy center area. That is just not possible in SF.

>You can walk in SF, I also did it, but the difference is that you don't really see much of the city if you do

What are you talking about? The first time I visited SF I just stumbled upon Haight-Ashbury and Japantown by walking around.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#322

Post by ckris »

H8crilA wrote: post #183
JDiculous wrote: post #123

Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…

It's the case not just in Korea and Japan but in most cities outside of America. It's one of American peculiarities, like checks or no public health care. China has a fantastic subway system in most big cities, for example. I once took a subway ride from the Shenzhen airport to the Hong Kong border, crossed the border, switched to another subway and arrived in downtown Hong Kong. That's around 65km (40 miles) by publ…

I wouldn't say most cities unfortunately. European cities are quite walkable and not as sprawling as American ones. But it is still pretty easy to end up were only cars can go not that far from the city center, or where there is only the occasional bus. Asia is really the leader in public transport now. I think the article is slightly misleading. Currently in Europe things like bike infrastructure and public transport is sort of like the development of drones. Everyone is saying they are doing it to claim they are keeping up, but not a lot is happening. It isn't like Shenzhen were every year there is a new pedestrian street, bikes, subway line, train line or something became electrified.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#323

Post by ensiferum »

yomly wrote: post #286
sprafa wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London has incredible public transport and only one line has no AC so it’s hot (edit) this is completely wrong, actually quite a few lines lack AC.. On being overcrowded - sure, during rush hour. Even then you marvel at the TfL’s efficiency - during rush hour I’ve counted one underground train every 20 seconds. 20 seconds! And this keeps on going for an hour or more.

Are you sure we live in the same city? The Central line during summer is so hot it wouldn't be legal to transport cattle on it. The Northern line regularly has packed platforms going north in the morning. The Metropolitan has been undergoing "modernisation" for over a decade... EDIT trains also frequently run late OR early They break under the slightest deviation in nature - rain, snow, heat and leaves on the track a…

In Munich the SBahn is what you described. Not being on time/trains cancelled is the norm. When it snows in Norway the SBahn here breaks down.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#324

Post by krageon »

wozniacki wrote: post #300
shalmanese wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they need to walk 40 minutes? In countries with good public school systems, all of the public schools are equally acceptable so you just send them to the nearest one which is generally less than a mile walk away.

I think you're living in a make-believe world of homogeneity. There are vast differences between the quality of schooling - both public or private - even within global metropolises like NYC, London, Paris & Tokyo. Its downright laughable to assume otherwise.

Outside of primary schools with a very strict religious background they are really all the same. You don't look at those with exit metrics and average scores on national tests the way you do with schooling after it.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#325

Post by wozniacki »

oefrha wrote: post #316
wozniacki wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're living in a make-believe world of homogeneity. There are vast differences between the quality of schooling - both public or private - even within global metropolises like NYC, London, Paris & Tokyo. Its downright laughable to assume otherwise.

Middle and high school do matter, but I don’t think primary/elementary/grade school — whatever you call it — makes much of a difference. I attended the average neighborhood primary school back in my day, and went on to the most competitive middle school, high school, and university.

Are you really implying a school in Croydon, a large town in south London is going to be functionally and qualitatively equivalent to say a school in Golders Green, an area in the London Borough of Barnet? [1][2]

Equivalent in all the areas one might measure the attractiveness and potential of a school?

[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon

[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golders_Green

edit:typo

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#326

Post by dgellow »

RyanAF7 wrote: post #156
wpietri wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good question, but I think if that were true, we wouldn't see many startups in places like SF and NYC, and quite a lot of them in the middle of nowhere. For me, interactions with novel people, experiences, and ideas are a big feeder for my own ideas.

Venture Capitalists aren't in the middle of nowhere.

Something attracted the VCs in the first place though.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#327

Post by oefrha »

wozniacki wrote: post #325
oefrha wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Middle and high school do matter, but I don’t think primary/elementary/grade school — whatever you call it — makes much of a difference. I attended the average neighborhood primary school back in my day, and went on to the most competitive middle school, high school, and university.

Are you really implying a school in Croydon, a large town in south London is going to be functionally and qualitatively equivalent to say a school in Golders Green, an area in the London Borough of Barnet? [1][2] Equivalent in all the areas one might measure the attractiveness and potential of a school? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golders_Green edit:typo

I know nothing about schooling in England, but I would imagine the parents’ education as well as socioeconomic status plays a much greater role than elementary schooling, as is the case everywhere else.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#328

Post by ginko »

wozniacki wrote: post #325
oefrha wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Middle and high school do matter, but I don’t think primary/elementary/grade school — whatever you call it — makes much of a difference. I attended the average neighborhood primary school back in my day, and went on to the most competitive middle school, high school, and university.

Are you really implying a school in Croydon, a large town in south London is going to be functionally and qualitatively equivalent to say a school in Golders Green, an area in the London Borough of Barnet? [1][2] Equivalent in all the areas one might measure the attractiveness and potential of a school? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golders_Green edit:typo

The UK is a pretty poor example since it's a very elitist country.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#329

Post by _nalply »

dwd wrote: post #302
arkh wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure why you're getting down-voted Maybe because just speaking on the phone in traffic makes a lot less attentive so you're prone to create accidents.

I would consider talking hands-free (if you're holding a phone you deserve to lose your license) no more distracting than listening to music. There are worst things like eating or talking to someone else in the car. (look at the road not the person when you're talking)

Just phoning, even hands-free, is distracting.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#330

Post by tarsinge »

wozniacki wrote: post #305
ronnie_fr3 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transportation is also full of impolite people, un-assimilated people etc... which makes the commute very unpleasant. Taking the bus/metro everyday at the worse hour, in summer, with rednecks all around you is definitely not the good side of transportation. As soon as i'll get a car, i'll never get back into public transportation

This and a dozen very closely related and tangential things concerning safety, sanitation, hygiene & propriety of people using public transportation is the reason people like me would never opt for it. Unless standards in those aspects of public transit were raised to such a high degree that they were no longer a threat or annoyance, a car would be exponentially more preferable. I think people on HN seem to underesti…

Keep in mind this is specific to the US, in Paris you have a lot of suits going to the office using the public transportation (me included), though it depends on the line and the hour of the day.
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