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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

301–310 of 619 posts

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#301
I always used public transport (metro/train/bus) to go to work. Two years ago I had to commute daily by car (just 20 minutes) and felt miserable. For me it was a total waste of time and energy.

Two months ago I switched jobs and started to go to work on my bycicle because the office is just 1 metro station away from home and I have bycicle way from home to work (which is very unusual in Madrid, by the way). This is probably the best job perk I ever had.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#302
post #272
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're getting down-voted as having people talking (often loudly) on their phone on public transport makes it unpleasant for everyone else. I try and save calls for the car part of my commute, but then get accused of only calling cause I have nothing better to do... You do appreciated the relative silence (no one on their phone or talking above a whisper) on trains in Japan. Brisbane trains on the other…

> Not sure why you're getting down-voted Maybe because just speaking on the phone in traffic makes a lot less attentive so you're prone to create accidents.

I would consider talking hands-free (if you're holding a phone you deserve to lose your license) no more distracting than listening to music.

There are worst things like eating or talking to someone else in the car. (look at the road not the person when you're talking)

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#303
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about shuttling your kids to school? I know in Japan most kids 6y+ just take themselves on public transport or walking. How is it done in other countries?

Germany: Most (all?) cities have special tickets for pupils. There are separate bus lines in the morning which pick up the pupils from the bus stops and take them directly to school. In the afternoon there are some special lines too, otherwise you just take a normal line with your pupil ticket. That's at least how it worked in my time, like 20+ years ago.

Still does generally. Sometimes city administration is picky in granting these tickets, but my city is a special case when it comes to money anyway. In Munich for example the subway is usually crowded with children around 7:30.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#304

Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…

When I moved to the USA for a few months from Europe, I was surprised by the fact that you simply can't walk to places. There are so huge spaces between things except for maybe city centers. (I was mostly in CA and FL)

I've been in Houston this year and it shocked me how difficult is to move there without a car.

I was saved by Uber and Lyft many times just because both my hotel and the office were really far away from public transport.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let be fooled by the "tourist impression". Staying for some days isn't the same as living in a place, involving commuting to work, bringing children to school, etc Every city looks nice as a Tourist, but then it's hard if you live there and in the false zone of the city (=farest away)

Public transportation is also full of impolite people, un-assimilated people etc... which makes the commute very unpleasant. Taking the bus/metro everyday at the worse hour, in summer, with rednecks all around you is definitely not the good side of transportation. As soon as i'll get a car, i'll never get back into public transportation

This and a dozen very closely related and tangential things concerning safety, sanitation, hygiene & propriety of people using public transportation is the reason people like me would never opt for it. Unless standards in those aspects of public transit were raised to such a high degree that they were no longer a threat or annoyance, a car would be exponentially more preferable.

I think people on HN seem to underestimate how small of a cross section, the fashionable opinions on HN appeal to and how unrealistic they are, once you bring into full view the jarring realities of modern life and how people cope with them.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#306

Edinburgh has some pretty cool plans for making more streets pedestrianised. It also helps that these streets are popular with tourists so doesn't make sense for cars to be going around a medieval city centre.

It sure does, Edinburgh also no plans to make life easier and sustainable for families who actually live here. Train services are unreliable, ever increasing property prices in the city itself and even the satelite towns are getting more expensive. Commuting into Edinburgh is a nightmare and likely to get worse.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American cities definitely don't look nice as a tourist. SF for example is terrible if you don't Uber everywhere.

Really? SF is one of the best, IMO. You can actually take long walks, it actually has a subway (plus busses, trams), it has sidewalks almost everywhere..... sure, less parks than one would like/ a bit too much concrete, lots of homeless people, etc. but hey, it's a big USA city, what did you expect? Compare it to e.g. the nearby San Jose - SF is so much better that it's not even funny. What US city would you consider…

You can walk in SF, I also did it, but the difference is that you don't really see much of the city if you do, compared to Berlin, London, or Tokyo. In those cities you can go from pretty much anywhere in the city to anywhere in less than an hour with public transport and on foot. Less than half an hour if you restrict yourself to the touristy center area. That is just not possible in SF.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#308
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally uncomfortable driving even really nice cars, 'cause you have to pay careful attention to not kill someone. I mean, driving can be fun or exciting - but it's not comfortable or relaxing, I would argue, at least not driving in places where there are other people. On public transit, on the other hand, I can relax and read and pretty safely ignore the world. Worst case someone grabs my kindle or my phone a…

> On public transit, on the other hand, I can relax and read and pretty safely ignore the world. Worst case someone grabs my kindle or my phone and runs. That surely isn't really the worst case. This happened last Friday in Madrid, just days after someone pushed a mother and her child in front of a train in Germany (and killed the child): https://twitter.com/el_pais/status/1157564725015851008 ? Granted, it's still a…

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Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#309
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to call my family and girlfriend during my commutes. It’s much nicer to do that in the privacy and comfort of a car than in public transportation. There’s also audiobooks and music.

Oh, so you're that weirdo who always makes everyone around him in the vehicle listen to his loud phone conversations, making it next to impossible to focus on a book, or whatever else they were trying to do. :)

I think the GP's point is that talking on phone can be done without disturbing anybody else when you're in your own car

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#310

I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…

Car ownership rates in cities have nothing to do with being rich enough to own a car. New York is one of the wealthiest cities in the country but has the lowest rate of car ownership. > Viewed from a different perspective, a country where most people can spend 48 minutes a day commuting, because it’s rich enough for everyone to afford a car,[1] might be considered better than one where many people have to endure two-…

> New York is one of the wealthiest cities in the country but has the lowest rate of car ownership.

I think that's part causation too. Cars are expensive things to own and operate with most of that money disappearing from the local community. The money that would have been spent on cars still goes somewhere and I'm betting most of it goes locally.

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