Makes sense as European cities were designed and built before the car. For us in the new world I'm afraid our foundations in suburbia have locked us in.
Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
191–200 of 619 posts
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#192I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…
Maybe that average Parisian commute is slower, but more pleasant. Walking and taking in the environment is certainly more positive for the body and mood (on average). You also encounter tons of other people, building social value, even without any direct interactions. Reading or daydreaming also become options when not focused on the road. Time isn't the only measurement. You are probably correct that the average Ame…
Depends on the environment and the people. I'd often take the long way through campus: pleasant architecture and landscaping, light filtered through tall buildings and trees, chance encounters with classmates and professors, lots of porous buildings with stuff going on.
The walking parts of my Bay Area transit commute, on the other hand, were urine vapor mingled with pot smoke, harsh direct sunlight bouncing off concrete, dozens of homeless people in varying levels of distress, shitty decaying $1.5 million houses, random commercial and industrial facilities with no windows or public access, lifeless expanses of "open space." A $22 parking fee is well worth it to avoid being a pedestrian anywhere near Civic Center Station.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
I went fishing today and had to drive some very sketchy, not-on-google-maps dirt roads to get to the first spot I tried. What happens to that sort of thing once we're all living in walkable condos and depending on driverless Uber for exceptions?
You rent a car that you can drive yourself to wherever you want. Over the long term in a walkable city, that is definitely cheaper than owning a car.
Assuming you have that skill after years of having a computer drive you around.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
You rent a car that you can drive yourself to wherever you want. Over the long term in a walkable city, that is definitely cheaper than owning a car.
Or an autonomous vehicle picks you and your friends up and the experience doesn't just start at the time of arrival to the destination.
Assuming it has that skill.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#195Edging? It's been the case for Europe for a few decades all along. You can live perfectly fine in Berlin without a car. You'll never need it. U-Bahn, S-Bahn, DB work perfectly. Lots of bike lanes everywhere.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#196I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…
Time on a train is at least semi-productive time. You can read HN! Which, face it, is what you'd be doing anyway. Time in a car is just spent staring at the road.
In the extremely unlikely event that there's room to hold your phone in front of your face, and you have a free hand (usually it's one on the overhead rail, one holding your bag).
It has happened for me, but only if I board at the beginning of the line or commute several hours off peak.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
You rent a car that you can drive yourself to wherever you want. Over the long term in a walkable city, that is definitely cheaper than owning a car.
Assuming you have that skill after years of having a computer drive you around.
It's not hard to learn how to drive. Otherwise not ~everybody would be able to do it.
I don't think that self driving cars will replace all cars immediately. That makes little sense from CAPEX perspective, cars are fine for 5, 10, maybe 15 years. You'll not replace an okay car for the latest self driving vehicle, dumping the previous car to the junkyard. Rollout may take decades. And we still don't know when are they coming to the market, that may also take a very long time.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#198I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…
None of the people replying to this post ever took an European public transport.
Trust me, it is not pleasant or comfortable, bumper-to-bumper is still better than jumping up and down in an overcrowded oven full of stinkies.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Time on a train is at least semi-productive time. You can read HN! Which, face it, is what you'd be doing anyway. Time in a car is just spent staring at the road.
In the extremely unlikely event that there's room to hold your phone in front of your face, and you have a free hand (usually it's one on the overhead rail, one holding your bag). It has happened for me, but only if I board at the beginning of the line or commute several hours off peak.
That is certainly not extremely unlikely, at least not in any European country I've been to. I'd say at least 80% of the travelers look at their phones, a book, paper etc. I can do it almost any time I choose to.
Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality
#200I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…
Time on a train is at least semi-productive time. You can read HN! Which, face it, is what you'd be doing anyway. Time in a car is just spent staring at the road.
I spent a year commuting by train and read so many books, it was great.