Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Long time nuclear waste warning messages

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 45 posts

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#11

Post by aeternus »

squirrelicus wrote: post #4

It's interesting how, when communicating with hypothetical future people in written form, we have to choose language we have the best hope of them understanding. A center of emanating energy that is dangerous to the body and kills. Really makes you empathize with religious writers trying to communicate often second hand divine truths that people thousands of years later will have to figure out without the understandi…

Seems like they are trying too hard, and actually made the message more cryptic than it needs to be.

Why not say "nuclear" or "radiation"? It seems very unlikely that the entire species will completely forget about the concept of nuclear radiation.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#12

Post by jcranmer »

squirrelicus wrote: post #4

It's interesting how, when communicating with hypothetical future people in written form, we have to choose language we have the best hope of them understanding. A center of emanating energy that is dangerous to the body and kills. Really makes you empathize with religious writers trying to communicate often second hand divine truths that people thousands of years later will have to figure out without the understandi…

Honestly, the language they have the best hope of understanding is... English! English is, for better or worse, the working language of much of the world (particularly in business, diplomacy, and technology), even if it is not a native language, and there's no language that seems poised to replace it in this regard. Even if English is somehow lost, there is a plethora of bilingual inscriptions that could serve as potential Rosetta stones.

Of course, the real problem with this endeavor is that human nature is going to be that explorers ignorant of The Old World will happily ignore any signs saying "Danger! Keep Out! We Really Mean It! This Will Kill You (Slowly)!" looking for treasure. That's exactly what happened with the pyramids--they were looted within a few centuries of being constructed. If humanity regresses to a point that they don't understand radiation poisoning, they are not going to be stopped by even the clearest explanation of what will befall them because they won't believe it.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#13

Post by roenxi »

aeternus wrote: post #11
squirrelicus wrote: post #4

It's interesting how, when communicating with hypothetical future people in written form, we have to choose language we have the best hope of them understanding. A center of emanating energy that is dangerous to the body and kills. Really makes you empathize with religious writers trying to communicate often second hand divine truths that people thousands of years later will have to figure out without the understandi…

Seems like they are trying too hard, and actually made the message more cryptic than it needs to be. Why not say "nuclear" or "radiation"? It seems very unlikely that the entire species will completely forget about the concept of nuclear radiation.

Also on point, if they have forgotten about the concept of nuclear radiation then discovering a nuclear waste dump will be a massive boon and cause for celebration. When we zoom out enough to see entire civilisations at once, a few people dying just isn't an issue; it is routine. We try our best to keep everyone healthy, but at the end of the day the benefits of progress outway handfuls of dead astronauts, scientists, explorers and early colonists.

We don't sit around moping that Marie Curie & co died doing research, everyone involved gets recognised for helping to usher in a new age of scientific progress.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#14

Post by Spooky23 »

roenxi wrote: post #13
aeternus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they are trying too hard, and actually made the message more cryptic than it needs to be. Why not say "nuclear" or "radiation"? It seems very unlikely that the entire species will completely forget about the concept of nuclear radiation.

Also on point, if they have forgotten about the concept of nuclear radiation then discovering a nuclear waste dump will be a massive boon and cause for celebration. When we zoom out enough to see entire civilisations at once, a few people dying just isn't an issue; it is routine. We try our best to keep everyone healthy, but at the end of the day the benefits of progress outway handfuls of dead astronauts, scientists…

This is HN and nuclear energy byproduct. There is no danger to worry about. Future cave men are more likely to die cutting themselves on discarded solar panels in landfills!

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#15

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

>This place is a message... and part of a system of messages ...pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture. This place is not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger. The danger is in a particular location... it increases towards a center... the center of danger is here... of a particular size and shape, and below us. The danger is still present, in your time, as it was in ours. The danger is to the body, and it can kill. The form of the danger is an emanation of energy. The danger is unleashed only if you substantially disturb this place physically. This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

Thought experiment, suppose in a remote part of the world, someone comes across a site with this exact message tomorrow and tweets it. What is the most likely scenario:

A) People heed the message and avoid the area.

or

B) The place is overwhelmed with people trying to find some hidden treasure or have alien encounters, etc.

I would argue that scenario B, is much, much more likely.

For better or worse, curiosity especially about forbidden stuff has been a hallmark of humanity, and likely will be so into the future. All this sign will do is encourage people to come and try to find the treasure and the mysterious source of power.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#16

Post by ianai »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

>This place is a message... and part of a system of messages ...pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture. This place is not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger. The danger is in a particular location... it…

I don’t see that as such a risk. Humans evolved in an environment full of deadly things. Sure enough, people died when they were the unlucky first to try something deadly. We’re talking about static hazards that don’t move suddenly to bite people, play possum, or even have attractive aspects like good smells or colors (other than sometimes being warmer than the surrounding area). People will figure it out and leave these places alone, or they’ll die and the survivors will flea.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#17

Post by MrLeap »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

>This place is a message... and part of a system of messages ...pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture. This place is not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger. The danger is in a particular location... it…

I wonder if it wouldn't be more helpful to try and design a Geiger counter that could last 10,000 years. I'm picturing a ring of large obelisks made out of some radio luminescent material. Actually it would probably be better if it changed between ugly colors rather than glowed. If it's pretty people would demolish it before the ribbon is cut.

Have all your pictograms try and communicate that some color = you're going to die, as well as "If you move much beyond this point, you're going to die _fast_."

Here's the important, albeit macabre part: After about 100 meters towards the center of the exclusion zone, you need to store enough radioactive material, preferably near Geiger obelisks, that going there will kill you _very_ quickly, for 1000's of years. Quicker the better. People need to associate the deaths with the area!

I assert that when 50% of people get cancer a month after entering a dump zone, it's hard to associate those illnesses with the cursed area until a lot of people are doomed. If 3 people go somewhere and none return, it becomes part of local lore.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#18

Post by t0astbread »

inanutshellus wrote: post #6

The only use-case I can think of that isn't covered by either signage or words is discouraging its utility as a weapon. e.g. "There's something deadly buried here? Neat, I'll dig it up and throw it at my enemies!" Perhaps they'd consider it covered by saying "nothing of value is here"...?

"Nothing of value is here so please leave this place uninhabited and do not disturb it" sounds kinda suspicious if you ask me.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#19

Post by jspash »

ianai wrote: post #16
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

>This place is a message... and part of a system of messages ...pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture. This place is not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger. The danger is in a particular location... it…

I don’t see that as such a risk. Humans evolved in an environment full of deadly things. Sure enough, people died when they were the unlucky first to try something deadly. We’re talking about static hazards that don’t move suddenly to bite people, play possum, or even have attractive aspects like good smells or colors (other than sometimes being warmer than the surrounding area). People will figure it out and leave t…

Google "Siberian Maldives" and you'll see just how devolved humans seem to be these days. Granted, "kids these days" have always been a bit daft, but the race to the bottom is really picking up speed.

Re: Long time nuclear waste warning messages

#20

Post by mc32 »

We only have to build a permanent waste site that’s beyond the capability to dig of a pre-Geiger counter society. So long as they can detect the radiation (know what it is and what it presents) they will avoid it. No need for Super-Sanskrit.
Post reply on HN