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U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#201

Post by bluetwo »

_ptgt wrote: post #160

One thing that I think is getting lost in this discussion is the role of intent on currency manipulation. Switzerland has the strongest currency in the world due to the country's reputation for governmental and financial stability. This makes Swiss labor extremely expensive for reasons mostly outside of their control, and the Swiss government has tried (and largely failed) to remedy this. Technically, this is devalua…

If having two different exchange rates -- "offshore" and "onshore" -- doesn't say currency manipulator, I don't know what does.

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#202

Post by Bendingo »

thrwayxyz wrote: post #171
empath75 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The us decoupling itself from China would be an unmitigated disaster for the us as China would align itself with Russia.

Russia has the population of Nigeria and the GDP of Italy. The cold war ended a while ago. Worrying about them today makes about as much sense as worrying about Autria in 1930 because Austrohungaria used to be a world power.

> Worrying about them today ...

And yet, still the west endlessly obsesses about Russia, for some reason.

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#203

Post by knubie »

tcbawo wrote: post #130
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will there be more tariff increases or sanctions? And then China will devalue their currency even more. So where does it end? Currency devaluation is, among other things, effectively a subsidy for exports, a little bit like the opposite of a tariff. But it's not exactly the opposite, which makes doing it in response to tariffs a bit desperate. If you're selling something for $100 and someone sticks a $10 tariff on…

Or it could be an act of desperation to keep their factories running at full capacity. They have a large segment of the population that is only tolerant of the authoritarian regime while their economic prospects are improving.

> They have a large segment of the population that is only tolerant of the authoritarian regime while their economic prospects are improving.

I'm not doubting this claim, but is there any evidence that this is the case? (A credible news source, perhaps?)

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#204

Post by viscanti »

Aperocky wrote: post #185
seibelj wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has free markets and a decentralized, bottom-up system that results in entrepreneurs and private entities deciding how to allocate capital. There may be temporary pain but wherever there is opportunity an entrepreneur will step in. China has zombie enterprises, their financial statements are lies, and cities built by bureaucratic maneuvering over market need. I will always bet on the American private sector o…

And of course all the product you bought that were made in China are lies, they don't exist at all. And obviously America will be able to make these products despite having about 0 unemployment, but hey, magic happens here amiright?

> obviously America will be able to make these products

American entrepreneurship doesn't mean all the manufacturing would take place in America. Entrepreneurial people are already moving to build more manufacturing in other countries where labor is less expensive and more plentiful than America. I don't think anyone was arguing that America would manufacture everything they currently import from China.

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#205

Post by qaq »

empath75 wrote: post #114
havetocharge wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US decoupling itself from China would have an avalanche of effects, including huge inflation on most consumer goods, and outright product shortages. China is also a huge foreign debt holder, and if presumably no longer a buyer due to decoupling, will send US interest rates skyrocketing.

The us decoupling itself from China would be an unmitigated disaster for the us as China would align itself with Russia.

you are aware that USSR annexed parts of China? Whatever the lang Xi uses they will never be allies.

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#206

Post by fspeech »

thefounder wrote: post #77
rolltiide wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire European Union along with China ignoring US sanctions will make the US re-evaluate its hegemonic ideology and interests To get to a more collaborative world, this would have to happen. The risk being that it could lead to a less collaborative world if the US is seen as a toothless world police. With the EU coming into its own and willing to take a near term economic hit to advance its goals, and China bein…

EU has its own issues such as Brexit, lack of fiscal union, Greece, Italy debt, unemployment, slow growth, no immigration policy, no common foreign policy etc. When you talk about EU you really talk about 27 member states not some kind of United States of Europe. The EU it's not really in the mood of taking short term hits unless is threatened(i.e with tariffs). Not to mention that it supports Trump stance on China a…

Europe already benefits from lowered tariff and relaxed ownership rules that China made so far. The only thing that China seemed to be willing to entertain further is large purchase of US products, which means less purchase from everyone else. So Europe and other US allies like Canada and Australia should actually fear a US/China deal. There is a reason why this negotiation is bilateral -- in a multilateral setting you can not demand China to just buy US.

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#208

Post by felipeko »

raincom wrote: post #195
wrong_variable wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Products don't grow on trees. If the fed buys every USD bond in existence ( aka monetize the debt ) - it would lead to a good amount of inflation.

Yes and no. Let me give you an example: if 70% of Americans get $40K bonus per annum from the fed, it will lead to inflation. However, if the same amount of money (70% of 300M times $40K =8.4T) is given to ten billionaires, it won't lead to inflation.

Only if the billionaires don't spend, invest or hold it in a bank.

Any of the three, it will go back to the market and result in inflation.

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#209

Post by ethbro »

Aperocky wrote: post #185
seibelj wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has free markets and a decentralized, bottom-up system that results in entrepreneurs and private entities deciding how to allocate capital. There may be temporary pain but wherever there is opportunity an entrepreneur will step in. China has zombie enterprises, their financial statements are lies, and cities built by bureaucratic maneuvering over market need. I will always bet on the American private sector o…

And of course all the product you bought that were made in China are lies, they don't exist at all. And obviously America will be able to make these products despite having about 0 unemployment, but hey, magic happens here amiright?

There are lots of countries that are neither the US, China, or in Europe.

If China decides it doesn't want to trade with the US, there are plenty of places that will.

And honestly, China had already reached the limit of an export-based economy. Growing your national economy on labor arbitrage only works up to a certain level of per capita wealth.

Re: U.S. Designates China as Currency Manipulator

#210

Post by Bendingo »

internet_user wrote: post #19
gopher2 wrote: post #9

Now what? Is there a legal designation or meaning to currency-manipulator I'm unaware of, or is this basically like the Chinese designating Trump a "name-caller."

"The three assessment criteria are: “(1) a significant bilateral trade surplus with the United States is one that is at least $20 billion; (2) a material current account surplus is one that is at least 3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP); and (3) persistent, one-sided intervention occurs when net purchases of foreign currency are conducted repeatedly and total at least 2 percent of an economy’s GDP over a 12-mo…

That seems pretty arbitrary to me.
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