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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

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Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#71

Post by Karrot_Kream »

colechristensen wrote: post #50

A thought in the back of my mind is fear of government oppression in a world without prevalent cars. If you have a car you can travel hundreds of miles with few limitations and it's particularly hard to quash this even in an oppressive state. If you only have your feet and public transit you are very limited to distance and location and tracking movements is an easy feature of the system. Things going wrong? The gove…

But a police officer can stop your car _right now_ if your passenger-side taillight is broken and then search your vehicle for a variety of things. So many marijuana related arrests have happened exactly this way. With license plate scanners and chips being embedded into cars, the ability to be pervasively tracked in a car is more apparent than ever. In contrast, walking or biking doesn't require registration or licensing by the government.

(As silly as I thought the movie was, the protagonist of the first Jack Reacher movie took the bus everywhere specifically so the government had no records on him, so the idea certainly isn't lost in popular culture either.)

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#72

Post by galaxyLogic »

zwaps wrote: post #6
marcus_holmes wrote: post #2

Living car-free in Berlin is ridiculously easy. I have my own bicycle, but still grab a Jump bike when I've walked somewhere and need to get home faster/easier. But this is the summer. I haven't done the winter here yet. That'll be the test.

In the last winters it barely snowed in Berlin, so I know quite a few people who kept riding their bikes all through the year. Of course, use your head - if it is damp and then below zero, be careful. Common sense, really. If all fails, public transport is decent enough to get you anywhere on foot. It's not perfect, I think mostly because Berlin is spatially huge and comparably empty. Cities like Paris have a much mo…

Just be aware of those tram tracks riding your bike into them can be deadly. At least in Amsterdam

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#73

Post by duxup »

ArnoVW wrote: post #11
tmh79 wrote: post #3

Its amazing to me how cheap these changes are, and how much people love them after they are implemented. You go to a neighborhood meeting in the US and all you hear about is "loss of parking", "traffic", but when you remove the cars, everyone loves it.

There is pushback against car-impacting measures in Europe too, make no mistake. The yellow jackets in France started as a protest against increase in tax on petrol. The previous president in France, Hollande, had to roll back a toll system. It took Paris 2 years of legal battles to close the roads along the Seine. The major difference, compared witg the US, is that at least in an urban setting, in Europe you can ima…

I can certainly understand some rural reservations and concerns.

I live in a suburban area where outside commuter type service there is no mass transit into the city.

So as the city restricts parking I worry about accessibility. Park and rides are also usually a commuter hours only option too.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#75

Post by beefalo »

plazmatic wrote: post #5

Good! Americas obsession with cars is one of its most glaring deficiencies. Every city should be accessible without a car, however unless you are in NYC, Chicago, or LA, or San Fran, well then that just isn't true.|

I would definitely not include LA on a list for accessible without a car, and San Francisco is debatable.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#76

Post by lazyjones »

tosh wrote: post #12
tmh79 wrote: post #3

Its amazing to me how cheap these changes are, and how much people love them after they are implemented. You go to a neighborhood meeting in the US and all you hear about is "loss of parking", "traffic", but when you remove the cars, everyone loves it.

In Vienna in 2010 the city decided to transform a huge shopping street into a pedestrian area. There was a lot of fuss and heated discussions. Media reported on it for months. Some people feared the proposed change will lead to fewer customers and this in turn will lead to stores having to close. Public opinion was split but leaning towards the transformation. One segment of the shopping street was kept a street as c…

> Fast forward to 2019 and people love it.

Some people do, others don't. Currently they are complaining about homeless and drunk people hanging out there.

To be honest, it's more crowded and looks desolate now. The shops aren't deserted, but it's a different crowd. And everybody complains about bicycles going 30 Km/h and endangering pedestrians.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#77

Post by lazyjones »

DennisP wrote: post #4

Europe has had fantastic public transportation for a long time. I lived in Germany for three years in the 1980s, never had a car, and never felt I needed one. I traveled all over western Europe.

> I lived in Germany for three years in the 1980s, never had a car, and never felt I needed one.

You don't know what you're missing. I pity the people who have to use the hot, crowded, smelly, slow public transport every day and don't know any better.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#78

Post by nabakin »

eddieh wrote: post #41

I live in a suburb of Seattle, I haven’t owned a car for about two years. It used to be owning a car was liberating, but now I think the day I sold my car was one of the most liberating days of my life.

Cars just come with so much baggage. The insurance, maintenance, purchase price, risk of collision, etc.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#79

Post by rglover »

jointpdf wrote: post #39

If you want to experience a car-free place in the US, you should check out Mackinac Island in between the Upper and Lower peninsulas of Michigan. Horses, bikes, and feet are the forms of transportation—motorized vehicles have been banned since 1898. There’s great history, Victorian architecture, and Great Lakes beauty. It’s a pure slice of Americana.

How does that work out during the winter up there?

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#80

Post by Scoundreller »

orthoxerox wrote: post #38
Scoundreller wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend a bank-robber style facemask. But I'm regularly dealing with colder temperatures than Seattle.

You mean like a ski mask? Because I instantly imagined someone biking while wearing a Beagle Boys style mask and got confused as to why that would help.

Whatever protects your skin from the elements :)
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