8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service • Hacker News Board

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#771

Post by znpy » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

I don’t know.

Everybody is keen on pointing the finger towards 8chan, no one is talking about how easy is to get firearms and bullets in the United States of America.

In the meantime, we lost one of the few spaces where we could talk anonymously and express ourselves freely.

I am not sure whether i should feel sorry for America at this point. The problem with shootings has been around for a lot if time now, yet pretty much nothing has been done. Firearms still get sold as easy as candy.

Shootings like this will keep happening because they are a symptom, not the root cause.

People will find other places to rant about stuff, get radicalised and decide to go on a killing spree. In the meantime, we lost a place of free and anonymous conversation.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#772

Post by scottlocklin » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

Weimar Germany had really strong hate speech laws.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/copenhagen-speech-v...

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#773

Post by odessacubbage » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #499

irrational wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Popper's tolerance criteria, by contrast, seems clearcut What is that criteria? Because I can easily see people disagreeing on what is and is not intolerant. Would you agree that saying that a baker in Colorado must make a cake for a gay wedding is intolerant of the baker's belief? Because I'm certain a sizeable proportion of the US population would agree that it is intolerant.

> I can easily see people disagreeing on what is and is not intolerant Not in the subject at hand. I think pretty much everyone reasonable agrees that "kill the {jews,muslims,hispanics}" (once more, folks, this was the THIRD ethnic massacre advertised on 8chan!) is intolerant, no? Can't we start there?

what about the beating of an openly gay viet-american journalist on a crowded public street? does that pass the reasonable standard for intolerance? because as of writing this comment, the individuals & organizations who cheered that on still have access to mainstream platforms & seemingly have faced close to no repercussions for continuing to advocate for violence.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#774

Post by znpy » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:57 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #76

We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. What 8chan is doing is exactly the same, minus the Islamist part, yet there's hypocrisy in how they're treated vs e.g. the social media wing of ISIS. These people are trying to kill as many of us as possible. In no way should society accept it. It's simple societal self-defense. Ro…

There is a fallacy in your thinking imo. Sites like 8chan are not entirely devoted to radicalisation, just like a mosque is not devoted to radicalisation.

Yet sometimes in a mosque some evil islamic imam or something preaches radicalisation.

Yet we tolerate and welcome mosques. Then why shouldn’t we tolerate and welcome sites like 8chan?

Also please keep in mind that now that 8chan has been basically shut down, we have no way of make an opinion of our own.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#775

Post by odessacubbage » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

'My opinion is that women's bodily autonomy is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires women who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of a fetus or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the people who are listening to not only reject, but to actively push back against abortions which are universally understood to be reprehensible.'

you either believe in rights or you don't.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#776

Post by AgentME » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

mann007 wrote: post #724

DonHopkins wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lost good friends to 4chan/8chan. They were obsessed. At first it was cat pictures and memes, but it went way downhill from there. I've watched those sites cause the transition from normal, interesting, reasonable, open minded, intelligent, happy human beings, to horrible inexcusable pieces of shit who I never want to have anything to do with ever again. It's not just that they inspire a few shooters and mass mu…

You could say the exact same thing about Twitter, Facebook, Reddit or any other form of social media. People get absorbed in ideas all the time, and those platforms just multiply the intensity. Personally, Twitter has been a much bigger source of anger, shock and hate than 4chan ever was. Some of the shit I've seen on Twitter made it unbearable to go on my day and yet on 4chan, on boards like /vg/, /ck/, /g/, /wg/ it…

>You could say the exact same thing about Twitter, Facebook, Reddit or any other form of social media. People get absorbed in ideas all the time, and those platforms just multiply the intensity. Personally, Twitter has been a much bigger source of anger, shock and hate than 4chan ever was.

Do you ever see people openly hoping for shootings, cheering them on, and then posting manifestos there (referencing not only the ideology they learned from the site, but even the in-jokes of the people cheering for it on the site) before doing their own shootings? And then after that, do those sites regularly completely refuse the concept of doing anything to try to prevent repeats?

I'm sure that other sites have been guilty of bits and pieces of that, but the combination makes 8chan on another level than any of those.

I'm in the same boat as DonHopkins. I've seen people who used to be friends get sucked into far alt-right stuff through 8chan specifically. Maybe it happens with Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit, but I haven't seen it and haven't seen many people here bring up any experiences like that.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#777

Post by jasonvorhe » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

Smithalicious wrote: post #215

This once again goes to show that you can do nothing illegal and still be virtually locked out of the internet. The viewpoint that "it's okay to kick 8chan off the internet" is not consistent with the viewpoint that "the internet should be neutral infrastructure". Take from that what you will. People are doing the "yada yada not entitled to a platform" thing, but the distinction between free speech and having a platf…

Extreme speech fosters more extreme views and welcomes people who would otherwise not feel welcome anywhere else which might bring them back to a more socially acceptable train of thought. 8chan and the like instead make these people believe that their ideology is normal and that there's a big community of like-minded people out there.

It's toxic and intolerable.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#778

Post by vinniejames » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

"universally understood to be reprehensible" therein lies the problem, there is virtually nothing universally reprehensible across all cultures

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#779

Post by bufferoverflow » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 11:06 PM UTC

faissaloo wrote: post #649

bufferoverflow wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you block 8chan, the only thing that it will result in is people will move to more censorship-resistant technologies. You will push people to TOR, distributed P2P, blockchain forums, etc. Which will make even harder to identify them. You can't stop the signal. ThePirateBay proved it many many times. We need to address the sources of the problem, not the symptoms.

Nowadays most people can't actually get anything off Piratebay cus they can't operate Tor

What are you even talking about? You get a magnet link off TPB, you put it into the torrent app or the seed box. No Tor needed.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#780

Post by Thorentis » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 11:13 PM UTC

zamfi wrote: post #401

Smithalicious wrote: post #215

This once again goes to show that you can do nothing illegal and still be virtually locked out of the internet. The viewpoint that "it's okay to kick 8chan off the internet" is not consistent with the viewpoint that "the internet should be neutral infrastructure". Take from that what you will. People are doing the "yada yada not entitled to a platform" thing, but the distinction between free speech and having a platf…

> People are doing the "yada yada not entitled to a platform" thing, but the distinction between free speech and having a platform is meaningless in reality. It's like saying "you can say anything you want, but we won't let you use the atmosphere to propagate the sound waves". But the size of the platform is commensurate with the tolerability of the speech, right? No one is preventing you from standing in a public pl…

> no one is preventing you from standing in a public place

Social media is now the equivalent of standing in a public place. Times have changed. The town crier that used to tell people that latest headline? That's now the Facebook news feed. Public library/coffee shop where people can go discuss whatever new subversive political idea they've had? That's now online chat rooms.

Sticking our heads in the sand and thinking that the Internet is anything other than the new public square is disingenuous. People need to wake up and realise that at present, the "public space" once protected by our rights has become almost entirely controlled by private monopolies.