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Amazon Is a Monopoly

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Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#81

Post by rb808 »

I think I can generalize that the problem with Amazon is similar to many of the modern tech companies in that they're super well funded and aren't expected to make a profit which allows them to undercut incumbents.

Amazon can price lower than Target/Wallmart/B&N/Local Stores, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies.

Uber can price lower than local taxis, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies.

Tesla can price lower than Ford/Toyota/Merc, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies.

AirBnB can price lower than Hilton/Marriot/Locals, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies.

WeWork can price lower than office buildings, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies.

The problem is low interest rates and another tech bubble.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#82

Post by Alupis »

disposition2 wrote: post #78
Alupis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure that it can control prices Amazon very often competes directly with sellers on the Marketplace, and often undercuts them on price. There are products they sell below the purchase cost, sometimes below manufacturing cost. You can't compete with that unless you have piles of money to burn. They sell at a loss until they shake everyone loose from a product, then dominate all sales of that products on the…

Are the actions of Amazon any different from what Walmart has done in the past? Just about all you describe, Walmart has been doing for 20+ years (probably closer to 30)

Yes and no. Until recently, Walmart hasn't had a Marketplace - so while Walmart has (and does) exploit their vendors with pricing and what-not, they haven't been able to wield that club against their competition directly like Amazon does.

People have also been saying Walmart is quite anti-competitive for years for what that's worth too.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#83

Post by lisper »

rb808 wrote: post #81

I think I can generalize that the problem with Amazon is similar to many of the modern tech companies in that they're super well funded and aren't expected to make a profit which allows them to undercut incumbents. Amazon can price lower than Target/Wallmart/B&N/Local Stores, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies. Uber can price lower than local taxis, lose money every year while the competition slo…

I'm not a huge Uber fan, but in their case at least I don't think you're being entirely fair. My home airport is SFO. The official taxis there have an extremely annoying pricing policy: if your destination is more than 20 miles form the airport they add a $50 surcharge to the cost of your trip. (I live 25 miles away.) And you can't summon a cab with an app. If you're at the airport they are very convenient. If you are anywhere else taxies are hopeless. In the face of such abject stupidity on the part of the taxis, I use Uber (well, Lyft) despite my sympathies for professional drivers. If the taxi companies weren't behaving like such utter and complete morons for years it would be easier to sympathize with them.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#84

Post by stcredzero »

being a monopoly on its own is not illegal under the antitrust laws. Illegal monopolization requires both 1) monopoly power and 2) that the firm acquired, enhanced, or maintained that power by using exclusionary conduct.

Exclusionary conduct includes things like predatory pricing, exclusive agreements, refusing to deal with a company, most-favored nation clauses, designing your product or service in a way that excludes competition, and more types of anticompetitive behavior.

How is the above different from "having a moat?" Isn't any company that starts and maintains a curated "ecosystem" engaging in some of these behaviors? Isn't Apple guilty of refusing to deal with certain companies and designing their product or service in a way that excludes competition? For that matter, aren't most of the tech giants?

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#85

Post by Alupis »

toasterlovin wrote: post #77
lttlrck wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems little different to walmart or any other grocer or retailer with own brand products alongside other suppliers in their ‘marketplace’. Should bricks and mortar stores also be dumb pipes? Is there evidence of Amazon driving a company out of business by abusing this position? If there is then that could be a problem.

> Is there evidence of Amazon driving a company out of business by abusing this position? If there is then that could be a problem. No, it really is not a problem. Amazon does not have a monopoly on consumer purchases. If your livelihood is dependent on selling on Amazon, a company which sells tons of products first party , then you need to be prepared from day one for the possibility that Amazon is going to bring a…

Is that not a conflict of interest then?

To operate a 3rd Party Marketplace while also harvesting said marketplace's data and then deliberately targeting top products, killing those 3rd parties in the process?

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#86

Post by theturtletalks »

toasterlovin wrote: post #68
theturtletalks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but is Google search not the default search engine for Chrome? Just like IE was the default search browser for Windows.

They are not using their browser monopoly (which doesn't exist) to force people to use their search product. That would be the corollary to the Windows -> Internet Explorer case.

How about using Android dominance to push their search or other services? They were forced to unbundle in the EU but no action from the US. If they were held to the same anti trust standard Microsoft faced, they would’ve had anti trust cases against them already.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#87

Post by tj-teej »

lisper wrote: post #83
rb808 wrote: post #81

I think I can generalize that the problem with Amazon is similar to many of the modern tech companies in that they're super well funded and aren't expected to make a profit which allows them to undercut incumbents. Amazon can price lower than Target/Wallmart/B&N/Local Stores, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies. Uber can price lower than local taxis, lose money every year while the competition slo…

I'm not a huge Uber fan, but in their case at least I don't think you're being entirely fair. My home airport is SFO. The official taxis there have an extremely annoying pricing policy: if your destination is more than 20 miles form the airport they add a $50 surcharge to the cost of your trip. (I live 25 miles away.) And you can't summon a cab with an app. If you're at the airport they are very convenient. If you ar…

Serious question: once the taxi industry has died what makes you believe that Uber won't implement similar policies?

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#88

Post by bduerst »

Arrezz wrote: post #2

How we actually define a company to be a monopoly seems to be somewhat arbitrary? I agree that Amazon engages in anticompetitive behaviour but I'm not sure that it can control prices or exclude competition to that extent? I mean every company can affect that, at what point does it become problematic?

For years Amazon had banned Chromecast and AppleTV devices from it's entire marketplace when they competed with their Firestick device.

Not only did Amazon not carry it, but Amazon also prevented third party sellers from listing the competing devices as well. That is textbook anti-competitive behavior, which is probably why Amazon finally started selling them again recently.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#89

Post by gamblor956 »

rb808 wrote: post #81

I think I can generalize that the problem with Amazon is similar to many of the modern tech companies in that they're super well funded and aren't expected to make a profit which allows them to undercut incumbents. Amazon can price lower than Target/Wallmart/B&N/Local Stores, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies. Uber can price lower than local taxis, lose money every year while the competition slo…

Tesla can price lower than Ford/Toyota/Merc, lose money every year while the competition slowly dies.

Teslas are priced higher than Fords and Toyotas, Tesla loses money every year while its competition rakes in billions in profits every year, and sell more cars each month than Tesla in a year...

Wework also rents all of its locations (either from its CEO or from third-party landlords). It has massive liabilities on its books that it can't leverage; the landlords have large liabilities as well but they have the type of liabilities they can (and do) borrow against.

Re: Amazon Is a Monopoly

#90

Post by stcredzero »

toasterlovin wrote: post #68
theturtletalks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but is Google search not the default search engine for Chrome? Just like IE was the default search browser for Windows.

They are not using their browser monopoly (which doesn't exist) to force people to use their search product. That would be the corollary to the Windows -> Internet Explorer case.

They are arguably using their browser dominance to prop up their search engine dominance.
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