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8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#671

Post by alkonaut »

dcolkitt wrote: post #506
api wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't censorship though. It's private companies refusing to host something. Nobody has been arrested for speech and there are no laws prohibiting speech that isn't overtly and specifically threatening or otherwise violates the "fire in a crowded theater" test.

Imagine an alternate scenario. Say the major tech companies get fed up with Elizabeth Warren's calls to regulate them. Facebook removes all her groups. Cloudflare shuts down her websites. Youtube removes her videos. Google only leaves anti-Elizabeth Warren search results up, etc. Basically a major presidential candidate is completely locked out of having any pretense on the Internet whatsoever. How many people who ho…

I watch my political debates on public service. In my last election I never saw a political ad in social media (nor on TV). Are you saying newspapers and TV can't choose whose messages they peddle? I can't relate to the problem. Perhaps your argument is an argument for a stronger public service? Or some laws actually requiring politicians in certain races to be represented? I can't say I like the latter.

To answer your question more specifically: if Facebook is like a TV-channel, then they should be regulated like one: channels can broadcast what they want. If facebook is more like the TV medium then it's a different story. Then you can't have it arbitrarily cut access to certain interests. BUT in that case it's also probably "too big to have that responsibility in private hands" and something should perhaps be done about that (just like some banks may be "too big to fail" and as such can't be responsible for the economic damage they cause).

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#672

Post by inscionent »

dcolkitt wrote: post #521
hacknat wrote: post #251

What does free speech have to do with this? Cloudflare and other companies have 1st amendment rights as well. One of them is that they can serve customers as they like, as long as they are not violating the rights of a protected class. Political ideology or party affiliation is not a protected class, nor should it be. Twitter could ban every Republican on its platform tomorrow and it if the government tried to stop t…

Imagine an alternate scenario. Say the major tech companies get fed up with Elizabeth Warren's calls to regulate them. Facebook removes all her groups. Cloudflare shuts down her websites. Youtube removes her videos. Google only leaves anti-Elizabeth Warren search results up, etc. Basically a major presidential candidate is completely locked out of having any presence on the Internet whatsoever. Would your reaction be…

No one is entitled to a youtube channel, that I am aware of. Would it be bad publicity? Maybe but, I'm sure plenty of people would cheer the ban.

I've never needed Facebook, Google or Cloudflare to have an internet presence, but maybe I don't know what the internet is.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#673

Post by abstractbarista »

tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

I should not be obligated to refute another person's speech. I thought silence was not consent. Right?

Furthermore, the chans are about as technologically receptive to challenging ideas as is possible:

Anyone can post from anywhere through any connection, without fear of harm or censorship.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#674

Post by zzzcpan »

khawkins wrote: post #663
nilkn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the record here defending /r/The_Donald. I'm even on the record saying I didn't think it should be quarantined and that I don't think it should be banned in the future. It takes a lot for me to wonder if something actually should be censored. I certainly wouldn't have been on the side of censoring Howard Stern. Radicalizing terrorists to such an extent that they actually go through with it -- multiple times --…

Playing whack-a-mole with extremist communities is only going to drive them together under a common threat and make them more desperate. The dedicated ones install a tor client and go further underground. The not-so-dedicated ones leave. But the not-so-dedicated parts of the community are the ones helping contribute to the deradicalization of the others. It should be obvious to state that if you get rid of 8chan, tho…

> It should be obvious to state that if you get rid of 8chan, those people aren't suddenly deradicalized

More importantly, you should ask yourself how they found 8chan. They were using other means of communications that didn't disappear. The invisible force that gathered them together on 8chan is still there and can definitely do that again.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#675

Post by JustSomeNobody »

freefolks wrote: post #633
Joeri wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person can be sound and rational but people are tribal. It is deep human drive to find a tribe to belong to. What the internet has enabled is forming tribes irrespective of geographic proximity. Sites like 4chan/8chan allow people of radical persuasions to find each other and band together, growing their That creates a powder keg waiting on a fight/flight trigger. Without a tribe to back someone, such a trigger wil…

There is high chance that most of those in these groups don't even believe in most of the stuff they say. To them its just entertainment. People participate only because its a throwaway identity that is noncommittal. These groups have no leadership or loyalty. I'm sure this is understood a majority of the time by participants. The problem is that one individual who memes way too hard or is absolutely serious about th…

> To them its just entertainment.

I would not doubt that a not very small percentage of the conspiracy theories posted are done so by people who don't actually believe it but want to see how many others they can convince.

However, I do also believe that some pretty sick people use 8chan to recruit people to continue their campaign of hate.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#676

Post by wesammikhail »

greglindahl wrote: post #632
irrational wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Popper's tolerance criteria, by contrast, seems clearcut What is that criteria? Because I can easily see people disagreeing on what is and is not intolerant. Would you agree that saying that a baker in Colorado must make a cake for a gay wedding is intolerant of the baker's belief? Because I'm certain a sizeable proportion of the US population would agree that it is intolerant.

A majority of the US population was tolerant of refusing service to N——--—— when it became illegal. Put another way, it’s rare that the rights of minorities are established by majority vote, even if these rights are owed by the Constitution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUvdXxhLPa8

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#677

Post by Zenst »

tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

"Unchecked extremism compounded by more unchecked extremism inevitably leads to scenarios like the ones we’re witnessing more and more often" exactly this. When you have a group of people that are on the extreme of society (think that's the polite way of phrasing that and covers all groups on the edge) and isolate them; Then you end up with them being contained in an echo bubble that amplifies their extremes and increase the odds of some other form of communicating with society that has cut them off in physical ways.

Having them there, and allowing such extremes to be questioned, and with that, kept in check. The whole recruit aspect is a mixed one, shut them down, then their words can not spread. But equally they can't be questioned and raises the mystik and that means anybody who is curious will be forced to engage in a phsyical meeting with such people, allowing them to be swayed more easily than somebody engaging with them online, open for all to show the errors.

I always thought it is better for such extremes to make themselves known in public, rather than hiding in the shadows. Makes it easier to keep track of them and their state of mind.

So however much I disagree a mindset, I'd rather have them in the open and kept in check.

What would the solution be. Well, sadly the web really does need some universal age content control that is imposed upon such extreme websites. After all, a young mind should be nurtured for rational debate and not indoctrinated into a fixed mindset. We should at least get that right upon the web now, whilst we can. With that, a safer control of such extreme content is maintained. When history has shown that pushing underground, has more negative outcomes than positive ones.

Digital prohibition is not the solution we want happening here.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#678

Post by onion2k »

tomohawk wrote: post #597
tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

[flagged]

8chan being shut down because their server supplied stopped doing business with them isn't an issue of free speech. You're really arguing that the 1st amendment means businesses can't refuse a customer, and that's just silly.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#679

Post by [deleted] »

buttcoinslol wrote: post #586
dcolkitt wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It should be noted that the United States at the time of the drafting of the Constitution had way way lower rates of education than today. Even as recently as 1945, the median American only had a 10th grade educa…

Americans in 1789 and 1945 did not have the ability to broadcast their thoughts worldwide for virtually nothing.

[deleted]
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