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Picking the FB50 smart lock

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Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#31

Post by jedberg »

mikeash wrote: post #22
jedberg wrote: post #17

I'm a big fan of electronic locks, but I refuse to have a smart lock. I know enough about IOT and security to know that a lock with a wifi chip might as well not be there at all. I just program a few extra codes into the lock ahead of time, and if I need to let someone in in an emergency, I just give them one of my burner codes and delete it when I get home. I don't really need a log of every entry because the camera…

Why is a WiFi lock so bad? It opens you up more, but the number of people who can hack even the most insecure example is vastly smaller than the number of people who can kick down a door or break a window. Household locks are almost always just about deterring casual criminals, and internet vulnerabilities don’t move the needle much on that.

> Why is a WiFi lock so bad?

Scalability. Once you know how to pick one, you can pick them all quickly and remotely. Kicking down a door or picking a physical lock takes time and effort and exposes you to scrutiny while doing it.

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#32

Post by jedberg »

thedanbob wrote: post #9

I’ve been getting into home automation recently and I’ve given myself a rule: nothing cloud connected. If I can’t run it off my local server, I don’t want it. I have much more motivation to secure my home than any company ever will.

After my internet was cut for five days and my smart house became super dumb, I adopted that rule too.

I'd love to know what products you are using.

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#33

Post by mikeash »

jedberg wrote: post #31
mikeash wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a WiFi lock so bad? It opens you up more, but the number of people who can hack even the most insecure example is vastly smaller than the number of people who can kick down a door or break a window. Household locks are almost always just about deterring casual criminals, and internet vulnerabilities don’t move the needle much on that.

> Why is a WiFi lock so bad? Scalability. Once you know how to pick one, you can pick them all quickly and remotely. Kicking down a door or picking a physical lock takes time and effort and exposes you to scrutiny while doing it.

Picking a lock remotely seems rather pointless.

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#34

Post by Jonnax »

charles_f wrote: post #23
thedanbob wrote: post #9

I’ve been getting into home automation recently and I’ve given myself a rule: nothing cloud connected. If I can’t run it off my local server, I don’t want it. I have much more motivation to secure my home than any company ever will.

That's awesome! Are you using any video surveillance? What about alarm system? Been looking for that for a while but no way I ever trust a cloud connected one anf everything passable connects to cloud.

Ubiquiti Networks have a product which allows you to set up your own controller and storage. Cloud features are optional.

https://www.ui.com/unifi-video/unifi-video-camera-g3/

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#35

Post by jedberg »

mikeash wrote: post #33
jedberg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is a WiFi lock so bad? Scalability. Once you know how to pick one, you can pick them all quickly and remotely. Kicking down a door or picking a physical lock takes time and effort and exposes you to scrutiny while doing it.

Picking a lock remotely seems rather pointless.

Why? If you want to break into a house, it's a lot easier if you can just walk up to the door and look like you were invited in, then attracting attention picking a lock or kicking down a door.

It also means you can hire someone else to do your dirty work by tricking them into thinking they were invited in and asking them to "grab a few things for you".

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#36

Post by ars »

jedberg wrote: post #32
thedanbob wrote: post #9

I’ve been getting into home automation recently and I’ve given myself a rule: nothing cloud connected. If I can’t run it off my local server, I don’t want it. I have much more motivation to secure my home than any company ever will.

After my internet was cut for five days and my smart house became super dumb, I adopted that rule too. I'd love to know what products you are using.

Hubitat Elevation: https://hubitat.com/

It runs entirely locally.

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#37

Post by thedanbob »

jedberg wrote: post #32
thedanbob wrote: post #9

I’ve been getting into home automation recently and I’ve given myself a rule: nothing cloud connected. If I can’t run it off my local server, I don’t want it. I have much more motivation to secure my home than any company ever will.

After my internet was cut for five days and my smart house became super dumb, I adopted that rule too. I'd love to know what products you are using.

I don't have a lot hooked up yet, mostly just the software infrastructure. I'm building it all around Home Assistant. That integrates nicely with my Unifi network controller, which gives me presence detection (phones connecting / disconnecting). I have one Sonoff wifi switch which I reflashed to work with MQTT, mostly as a proof of concept, but now that I know it works I'll probably get a pile more. And I have a Honeywell T6 Pro thermostat (z-wave) on the way.

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#38

Post by banana_giraffe »

berbec wrote: post #6
balls187 wrote: post #3

Losing access to a lock is bad stuff. I went with a smart lock that has a physical key. The article says don't buy a smart-lock, but the convenience of having one-time access codes, scheduled access, delivery access, and linked to a security camera make the downsides (increased attack vectors) something I'm willing to live with.

And we, on HN, can make an informed decision about that calculated risk. The general public just sees "Encrypted Android App with Smart Unlock" and thinks they are safe.

Or they see a Master Lock advertised as "4-pin cylinder for added pick resistance" and think it's harder than "trivial" to pick.

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#39

Post by thedanbob »

Jonnax wrote: post #34
charles_f wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awesome! Are you using any video surveillance? What about alarm system? Been looking for that for a while but no way I ever trust a cloud connected one anf everything passable connects to cloud.

Ubiquiti Networks have a product which allows you to set up your own controller and storage. Cloud features are optional. https://www.ui.com/unifi-video/unifi-video-camera-g3/

You know, I already have a bunch of Ubiquiti network gear but it hadn't even occurred to me to look at their security cameras. Not in the budget yet but once it is that's probably what I'll go with!

Re: Picking the FB50 smart lock

#40

Post by dogma1138 »

herpderperator wrote: post #25
OrangeTux wrote: post #11

> DO NOT. Ever. Buy. A smart lock. You’re better off with the “dumb” ones with keys. Well, physical locks are not necessary harder to pick lock than electronic locks. Buy your self a pick lock set, practice a bit and be amazed how many locks you can pick.

I think you'll be surprised. You should watch some of these videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ - choose any one of his videos. It'll be picked in under a minute.

LPL is an amazing lock picker, anyone with this level of skill is much better off working as a locksmith or a security consultant.

Most B&E’s aren’t exactly executed by master thieves they aren’t single pin picking your locks.

When selecting a door lock or a pad lock you should care only that it can be raked or bypassed, for bike locks you should also care that it can’t be easily cut.

For the most part your door is likely going to be the weakest link as most people don’t have reinforced doors and door frames.

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