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Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

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Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#221

Post by jonny_eh »

gwright wrote: post #181
jonny_eh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's assuming that the free market is best at distributing wealth. Evenly distributing at least some of the money isn't the same as "spending" it.

The casual assumption that it is appropriate for government to tax people in order to distribute wealth "evenly" is disturbing. I'm reacting to the "even distribution" notion not taxing in general. I think there are legitimate reasons for government to collect taxes but ensuring even distribution of wealth isn't one of them, IMHO.

There's a difference between evenly distributing ALL money, as in communism, and a minimum so that people don't need to suffer in poverty.

You're making a value judgement that it's worse to distribute some tax dollars than to turn a blind eye to poverty.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#222

Post by tripzilch »

EventH- wrote: post #136
skybrian wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument relies on a fallacy of binary thinking: either you have ideas or you don't. It's perfectly fine to say that you have lots of investment ideas, but they don't add up to needing $100 billion to implement them. Especially when you are earning more cash every quarter.

This deftly misses Theil's point and the supposed fallacy is wholly irrelevant. Alphabet's success came off the back of world-changing innovation; now their best offering is the stagnant status quo, yet they position themselves as creatives building the future.

Except that even without explicit innovation, the status quo is anything but stagnant.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#223

Post by scarface74 »

chrischen wrote: post #220
tzakrajs wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would call income tax a good problem to have, one which these companies don't have

A company like Dropbox does not need to keep its headcount to maintain their current product and extract profits (of which they lose a big chunk to corporate income tax). If they wanted to show profit they can easily tighten, focus, and get rid of R&D and new product development.

They aren’t cash flow positive. No company chooses not to be cash flow positive to avoid taxes. That’s not how things work. Do you feel the same way about Uber and Tesla? Do you think they aren’t showing a profit to avoid taxes or because they still haven’t figured out how to sell their products at a cost that will cover fixed and variable costs?

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#224

Post by gwright »

jonny_eh wrote: post #221
gwright wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The casual assumption that it is appropriate for government to tax people in order to distribute wealth "evenly" is disturbing. I'm reacting to the "even distribution" notion not taxing in general. I think there are legitimate reasons for government to collect taxes but ensuring even distribution of wealth isn't one of them, IMHO.

There's a difference between evenly distributing ALL money, as in communism, and a minimum so that people don't need to suffer in poverty. You're making a value judgement that it's worse to distribute some tax dollars than to turn a blind eye to poverty.

I explicitly said I was responding to the notion of "even" and not arguing against taxing in general.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#225

Post by AlanSE »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #32
AlanSE wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment said the same thing as the 4-paragraph comment about corporate finance. Yet somehow so much easier to understand.

The difference is cost of failure. If you lose a game you play another, so tolerance for risk taking is high. If Google or APPL screws in an economic downturn up they go bankrupt and don't get a second chance. Cost of failure is a huge decider of optimal behavior.

Very interesting way to look at the topic. However, if I adopt that perspective, I come to the opposite conclusion.

Corporations are limited liability. It is expected that shareholders have distributed ownership in many companies.

For Starcraft rankings, the possibilities are -1 or +1. For investing, it's more like -1 to infinity. It's a distribution within those bounds. Increasing the likelihood of hitting that -1 roll of the dice is completely acceptable if it is counter-balanced by a greater average benefit at the long end of the tail.

Starcraft is different. Because there are only 2 outcomes (excepting draws), an increase in the chance of the -1 outcome necessarily comes with a decrease in the change of the +1 outcome. It would be more like a public company if they gave ranking bonuses for overkill of the opponent.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#226

Post by rpmisms »

xchaotic wrote: post #144
rpmisms wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to sign up. I have a Pixel phone, I have an aging gaming laptop, and I want to continue play some new games. I'm not serious enough to be concerned by lag, and if it's awful, I'm out $129. Big deal.

Why not a PS4 hardly more expensive at this point?

Because I like being portable, which is why I have a gaming laptop.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#227

Post by bduerst »

neonate wrote: post #80
bduerst wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel is also on a jingoist bend against Google, so I would take whatever he says with a grain of salt. I saw him on CNBC claiming that Google was unpatriotic for dropping the government project Maven (machine vision for millitary drones) and that Google was also a Chinese sympathizer - despite there being no evidence and also the fact that you can't even use Google in China. The same Google employees that revolted a…

The debate mentioned above was in 2012. That's many years ago, long before any recent "jingoistic bend", so I don't think it's relevant. Actually I don't see how it would be relevant anyway, since it has nothing to do with his actual argument in this case.

Thiel has been on Facebook's board since 2004, so his motive is still the same. In fact, it's more evident with his more recent behavior.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#228

Post by lunchables »

bduerst wrote: post #48
lunchables wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people would agree he has an agenda, but your post is just an ad hominem attack against Thiel and doesn't address the original poster's question at all.

It is true that my comment is an ad hom attack, but as it speaks to the motive (and potential hypocrisy) of the speaker, it is not fallacious. It also speaks to the question as to whether or not Thiel has a point, hence the idiom "take with a grain of salt".

You are certainly welcome to attack someone if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that your post doesn't speak to the argument at all. Thiel can both have an agenda AND be correct, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#229

Post by jjeaff »

wahern wrote: post #202
jjeaff wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you are forgetting the fact that the corporation will have to pay corporate income tax on that money before they can use it to pay your dividend.

That's true, regardless. They paid tax earning that $100M. What they do after is irrelevant, as neither dividends nor buybacks are tax deductible.

No, they didn't necessarily pay tax earning that 100m. See double irish sandwich and other modern tax avoidance strategies allowing companies like apple to hold infinite amounts of cash in overseas accounts tax free.

Re: Alphabet overtakes Apple to become most cash-rich company

#230

Post by TheGRS »

dahfizz wrote: post #113
TheGRS wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the actual decision-making tends to be more important than just what one knows. A pile of cash seems more indicative of investment paralysis than some grander strategy. Like, "we can't figure out the best investment to make with this money, so the safest thing we can do is hoard it until we come up with a better idea".

Again, this is pure speculation. You have approximately 0% of the information available to the people who make these decisions, so why bother guessing? It's boring and pointless.

I would argue its actually kind of fun to speculate, but fair enough.
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