8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service • Hacker News Board

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#261

Post by DonHopkins » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

I've lost good friends to 4chan/8chan. They were obsessed. At first it was cat pictures and memes, but it went way downhill from there. I've watched those sites cause the transition from normal, interesting, reasonable, open minded, intelligent, happy human beings, to horrible inexcusable pieces of shit who I never want to have anything to do with ever again.

It's not just that they inspire a few shooters and mass murders. They inspire a hell of a lot of other once-reasonable people to be deeply and irredeemably terrible in many other ways.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#262

Post by hokumguru » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

bobfromhuddle wrote: post #202

matt-attack wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site Why? Think about what you're saying. Imagine equivalents: 1. We wouldn't allow cell phones that let terrorists communicate 2. We wouldn't allow roads that allow anyone to carry whatever contra-ban they want down them. 3. We wouldn't allow trains that allow just anyone to carry books on whatever topic they want. 4. We can't allow for air that allows two willing…

The difference is that every single one of your counterexamples is something that society depends on. Nobody depends on 8chan. 8chan is not comparable to "air". This point is so incredibly banal that I'm surprised to find myself making it.

Indeed, but speech itself is is. I think OP's point was that free-speech is as fundamental a "air" and that everybody everywhere depends on it.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#263

Post by FireBeyond » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #107

DangerousPie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It reminds me a lot of Charlottesville, where people showed up to try to shout over the white nationalists and it just ended up with a bunch of people getting run over by a car. As if something like that happening wasn't entirely predictable. Wait, what are you trying to say here? That these people deserved to get run over because they dared to shout at white nationalists??

I'm saying that I think allowing people to DDOS 8chan will result in more violence.

So we should allow them to have their way, and we should enlist third party private entities to mandate assistance be provided?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#264

Post by DrDimension » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #150

DrDimension wrote: post #97

The truth is that information does not radicalize people - censorship does. That's why the channers are as radicalized as they are - they've been censored everywhere else. Censor their last remaining outlets and you will increase violence by orders of magnitude.

>The truth is that information does not radicalize people I'd be fascinated by an attempt to elaborate on this frankly incredible statement.

Please give me one example of true information that would radicalize a person.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#265

Post by VectorLock » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

LargeWu wrote: post #120

Can any free speech absolutists explain to me the legitimate public interest that is served by allowing terrorist breeding grounds like 8chan to continue to operate?

According to the Cloudflare CEO he was worried cutting off 8chan with inhibit law enforcement's ability to monitor it.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#266

Post by DrDimension » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

boramalper wrote: post #182

What people (seemingly) fail to realise is that neither Cloudflare is the Internet nor Voxility is a public infrastructure. They are private enterprises which are free to act in however they want with regards to the service they provide as laid out in their contract. That is the danger of centralisation; when they remove their service, it feels as if your rights has been violated because (a) you have been so used to…

A private company must act as public infrastructure once it becomes a de facto monopoly.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#267

Post by throwanem » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

ergocoder wrote: post #198

LargeWu wrote: post #120

Can any free speech absolutists explain to me the legitimate public interest that is served by allowing terrorist breeding grounds like 8chan to continue to operate?

Not a speech absolutist. I believe certain kind of speeches should be banned. What irked me is that CloudFlare was the one who makes the decision to do censorship. It's not really a due process. No one argue for the defendant's side. It would seem better coming from US court through a due process or something like two lawyers arguing for both sides and etc. I dislike the rationale of "CloudFlare is a private company.…

Your argument here is that something which does not legally constitute censorship would be better replaced by something which does.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#268

Post by castis » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

DrDimension wrote: post #266

boramalper wrote: post #182

What people (seemingly) fail to realise is that neither Cloudflare is the Internet nor Voxility is a public infrastructure. They are private enterprises which are free to act in however they want with regards to the service they provide as laid out in their contract. That is the danger of centralisation; when they remove their service, it feels as if your rights has been violated because (a) you have been so used to…

A private company must act as public infrastructure once it becomes a de facto monopoly.

edit: nah

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#269

Post by LargeWu » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

mrlala wrote: post #255

LargeWu wrote: post #120

Can any free speech absolutists explain to me the legitimate public interest that is served by allowing terrorist breeding grounds like 8chan to continue to operate?

The theoretical argument is simple- if you ban one kind of speech, where does it end? The line can keep getting moved closer until what's not allowed is in a gray area and that's not where we want to be. However, the practical side of this is pretty clear.. hate speech is hate speech. It's not a debate. The people who are for being racist/bigots are wrong- plain and simple. So removing their forum of speech is OK in…

Society places limits on all kinds of things. Even speech - inciting violence is not protected under the first amendment.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#270

Post by arwineap » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

ergocoder wrote: post #198

LargeWu wrote: post #120

Can any free speech absolutists explain to me the legitimate public interest that is served by allowing terrorist breeding grounds like 8chan to continue to operate?

Not a speech absolutist. I believe certain kind of speeches should be banned. What irked me is that CloudFlare was the one who makes the decision to do censorship. It's not really a due process. No one argue for the defendant's side. It would seem better coming from US court through a due process or something like two lawyers arguing for both sides and etc. I dislike the rationale of "CloudFlare is a private company.…

> What irked me is that CloudFlare was the one who makes the decision to do censorship.

I'm not sure what makes you think cloudfront is "censoring" anyone; 8chan no longer is using cloudflare's (likely) free service, so they need to reconfigure their DNS and go about their day.

A good majority of the internet does not use cloudflare; free or paid.