I realize this may not be the best place to talk about it, but is there some good explanation for what seems to be a totally insatiable thirst for white supremacy in America these days? It seems to me like this is the real story here and, for the most part, it is not being covered in any real sense by either liberal, conservative or independent media.
8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
241–250 of 1001 posts
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#242meanwhile, to us canadians, it's painfully obvious that the problem isn't websites, but guns. curbing free speech is not going to solve this problem for you.
That's an extremely narrow view of a nuanced issue. We have divisive cultural issues, a severe mental health problem, an opiate addiction problem, and problems with access to guns in some areas. We also have a huge country. We also have a huge country, taking away guns from people in Alaska will solve nothing.
How's the knife banning in London going btw?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#243This once again goes to show that you can do nothing illegal and still be virtually locked out of the internet. The viewpoint that "it's okay to kick 8chan off the internet" is not consistent with the viewpoint that "the internet should be neutral infrastructure". Take from that what you will. People are doing the "yada yada not entitled to a platform" thing, but the distinction between free speech and having a platf…
It's fine, we can get rid of the bad. It's not impossible to tell good and bad apart, so we don't need to keep the bad if we also want the good.
The slopes are not that slippery. Germany isn't a dystopian hell-hole because they banned Nazism.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
8chan is a platform allowing any kind of legal content. Pol is just one of them. You also have technology and comic book discussion for example.
So imagine you own a bunch of ponds and let groups of people use them. Some people use them for breeding goldfish. Some use them for canoe races. Some for swim meets. But one of the biggest ponds you own lies still and stagnant. A perfect place for mosquitos to lay their eggs. In fact you’ve managed to make it especially hospitable to mosquitos that carry malaria. And all your other ponds are next to it, all your oth…
I don't think equating people to mosquitos is a good analogy, it seems dehumanizing the other to me.
But let's roll with it anyway. What we have here is actually a large-scale land owner who leases out the land to anyone without further conditions to the lessee. It would seem silly to blame the leaser and not the lessee for what happens on those lands. Of course the government can still come in and request that they do something about the mosquitoes, if laws and regulations require that, but until then they won't become active because it would mean going back on their lease agreements which grant the lessee free use.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#245Are 8chan and 4chan related?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#246This is a ridiculous witchhunt, 8chan is a platform for many different boards with different opinions, the media framing it as a right-wing white supremacist forum makes wonder if its ignorance or malice, /leftypol/ is probably as big as the /pol/ boogeyman, and thats just politics which is just a part of the rest of the boards. No one is asking to close Facebook because Tarrant uploaded his shooting video there, why…
Do you have much experience with the chans? I've spent an embarrassing amount of time on them over the years, and my experience is that it would be ridiculous to compare the ratios of politically hateful, extremist content to normal content between Facebook and the chans. The difference is night and day. The chans are full of great, diverse content, but an absolutely solid core of their identity is inevitably dominated by the worst elements of society at any given time - it's just inevitable due to the nature of the format and rules.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a speech absolutist. I believe certain kind of speeches should be banned. What irked me is that CloudFlare was the one who makes the decision to do censorship. It's not really a due process. No one argue for the defendant's side. It would seem better coming from US court through a due process or something like two lawyers arguing for both sides and etc. I dislike the rationale of "CloudFlare is a private company.…
Wait, you'd be more comfortable if the censorship came from the government?
Yes, compared to a censorship coming from companies.
One point is that the decision process is rather secretive. Who argued for? Who argued against? What were their supporting arguments and etc.? Doing censorship through court would be better.
If you have a different position, could you explain why censorship coming from CloudFlare is better than censorchip coming from US government?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#248What people (seemingly) fail to realise is that neither Cloudflare is the Internet nor Voxility is a public infrastructure. They are private enterprises which are free to act in however they want with regards to the service they provide as laid out in their contract. That is the danger of centralisation; when they remove their service, it feels as if your rights has been violated because (a) you have been so used to…
> What people (seemingly) fail to realise is that neither Cloudflare is the Internet nor Voxility is a public infrastructure. Everyone realizes that. We're past relying on the First Amendment argument.
> Everyone realizes that.
Based on some of the posts in this thread, I disagree.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#249I am genuinely upset over this. And that is after CEO pinky swears he will not do it in the future. It will be that much easier to do it now that there is a precedent. I doubt he does not know it. I think.. I think I will be starting free speech focused entity. Like NRA. Laser focus. No restrictions on free speech of any kind. Ever. This may be the only thing to prevent US from losing its list of temporary priviledge…
Free speech does not require that we give people a platform. Free speech also means that everyone can decide to turn their backs on people saying these sorts of things, and not let them use the things we have built to spread their message.
I would have agreed not that long ago, but a lot of those platforms became defacto public squares. You do not get to benefit from a public good without burdens that come with it.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#250Can any free speech absolutists explain to me the legitimate public interest that is served by allowing terrorist breeding grounds like 8chan to continue to operate?
Not a speech absolutist. I believe certain kind of speeches should be banned. What irked me is that CloudFlare was the one who makes the decision to do censorship. It's not really a due process. No one argue for the defendant's side. It would seem better coming from US court through a due process or something like two lawyers arguing for both sides and etc. I dislike the rationale of "CloudFlare is a private company.…
> I dislike the rationale of "CloudFlare is a private company. They can do whatever they want" ... like wut?
Doesn't CloudFlare have the same free speech rights to express their own views towards hate speech (i.e., by not providing service to white supremacists)?