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Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

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Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#41

Post by tgflynn »

j_baker wrote: post #20
tgflynn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize if this seems harsh but I am highly skeptical that someone who is "not a developer", and by this I understand you to mean that you have never done software development in your career, is qualified to design large systems and networks. I don't think that such a person could have a deep enough understanding of the technology to do a good job performing the tasks he purports to. As for likening developers to…

> I apologize if this seems harsh but I am highly skeptical that someone who is "not a developer", and by this I understand you to mean that you have never done software development in your career, is qualified to design large systems and networks. Don't sysadmins and network admins design large systems and networks? Sorry, but programmers don't have a monopoly on technical complexity. > As for likening developers to…

Sorry, but programmers don't have a monopoly on technical complexity.

Actually we pretty much do. These days anything really complex can only be effectively analyzed and managed with code. That's why biologists, economists, political scientists and even journalists are finding they need coding skills to do their jobs (which isn't to say that coding skills alone are sufficient, domain knowledge is essential as well).

As for sysadmins I've heard it's pretty difficult for people without coding skills to get sysadmin jobs at cutting edge companies like Google. One big reason is that to perform those jobs efficiently you need to be able to automate tasks, and that requires coding in some form. I also think that having worked with the API's and having implemented at least some sort of semi-non-trivial piece of code, say a simple network client/server pair gives one a depth of understanding of the technology that really can't be obtained in any other way.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#42

Post by Swizec »

phlux wrote: post #35
Swizec wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not saying they are rare. I'm saying this: 1. Everyone is capable of having a billion-dollar idea 2. Not everyone will actually have such an idea 3. Such ideas are still a dime a dozen because even if only 10% of the world population has such an idea, that's still 700 million such ideas. That's a lot. 4. It's difficult to prove that an idea was a billion-dollar idea and the only way of proving is likely to ei…

but youre using the population of the globe - try scaling that back to our sector a bit, and assume that there are a fraction of a % of the population involved in tech, and in a position to execute. You're attributing the ability/capability and access to requisite resources to people who will never have such access/resources. So, even looking at the overall population of the bay area - with the high % of tech people…

One question, why? Why would you do that scaling back?

And in my arguments I said that the having the opportunity and/or the right set of circumstances to execute on the idea is crucial to actually, you know, executing on the idea. It does not affect the value of the idea itself as a billion-dollar idea, just whether you'll ever be able to prove it or not.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#43

Post by stretchwithme »

Mz wrote: post #29
j_baker wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction. -Einstein If there's one thing working in software development has taught me, it's that simple != easy. Simple ideas are usually the best because you can build so many other ideas on top of them.

Words fail me in trying to explain how painfully difficult it is to try to explain "simple" concepts to folks who think some specific problem is hard and, therefore, has to be really complex/involve huge hurdles/etc. Not that it's really as simple as it seems to me, because that elegant solution ...well, never mind. (Prepares to regret even bothering to try to comment on it.) Anyway, thanks for noting this.

That makes me think of the rolling suitcase problem, where all that was needed was placing the wheels so the bag wouldn't tip over while rolling. That took decades for something to click in someone's head.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#44

Post by Mz »

stretchwithme wrote: post #43
Mz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words fail me in trying to explain how painfully difficult it is to try to explain "simple" concepts to folks who think some specific problem is hard and, therefore, has to be really complex/involve huge hurdles/etc. Not that it's really as simple as it seems to me, because that elegant solution ...well, never mind. (Prepares to regret even bothering to try to comment on it.) Anyway, thanks for noting this.

That makes me think of the rolling suitcase problem, where all that was needed was placing the wheels so the bag wouldn't tip over while rolling. That took decades for something to click in someone's head.

Your comment reminds me of a scene from the old show "Three's Company": Jack (the male roommate) asks why the ditzy blonde's smaller suitcase is heavier. The answer: "Because it's smaller". This, of course, explains nothing. Then the two women open up their suitcases and explain that the larger suitcase doesn't wrinkle up the clothing, so no iron is needed, but the smaller suitcase does wrinkle the clothing so the gal with the smaller suitcase also carries an iron. The iron is what makes the smaller suitcase heavier -- and wouldn't be needed if it weren't so small.

Uh, maybe the only connection is the word "suitcase" but it's a great little idea that I have always loved.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#45

Post by A1kmm »

The article is fighting strawmen. I've never heard anyone say that starting off with a good idea isn't important.

A good idea is a necessary but not a sufficient condition.

What the author doesn't argue against is that potentially good ideas are fairly abundant and easily obtained. These 'potentially good ideas' (that is, ideas which sound like they would work, but for which there is not yet any good evidence either way) are not worth much not because it isn't important to start from one of them, but instead, because they are not a scarce resource. Give me a 'potentially good idea' along with some quantitative data that suggests there is a huge market, and that the likely cost to acquire customers is far less than the likely lifetime present value of each customer, and suddenly the former 'potentially good idea' is much more valuable - because ideas that come with the data to back them up are much more scarce.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#46

Post by phlux »

jeromec wrote: post #36
phlux wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, my whole point is that the Idea cannot be separated from execution, and execution cannot be separated from idea. They both can be objectively measured - but they are linked.

Well, yes, I agree that every business started as an idea. Everyone needs a starting point to act on, and that's what ideas are, starting points. However, I could have an idea to open a donut shop, and turn that into a profitable business even though there is nothing revolutionary or novel about such an idea. So, yes, you need both, but the thing to realize is that ideas will vary greatly in how much value they can p…

>One can easily sit and dream up 100 ideas in a day, but one can't develop 100 projects in a day.

Exactly, so then - if that one idea - which the dev could put together using his skills were the billion dollar one - then the IDEA was what was so valuable. Not the fact that he had development skills.

I just cant believe that ideas are worthless at all. They are worth what you can make of them - but they are never worthless.

You can develop 100 projects, but you also cant develop 1 project without an idea behind it. And then, its the value of the idea, the resultant product or service that has value.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#47

Post by chrisbennet »

It's the relative ubiquity of good ideas that makes them worthless. How much would someone pay you for your "great idea"?

Developers are constantly bombarded by "idea men" who want someone else to do all the work because they think the "idea" is somehow worth half (or more) of the profit.

Here is a perfect example, it was posted 12/29 on Craigslist Boston (under Gigs->Computer)

need Android and iphone app creator and partner for next big thing

"I am looking for someone who can create and program an Android and iphone app, integrate the apps into a customer database and billing program and also serve as the tech side of the venture.

My idea is gold and EASY and low tech and can spread virally fast, there will be money for you on the back end if this works. U.S AND india welcome. my only requirments are that you be available to communicate via email, text, IM and phone reliably, AND that you have a burning desire to make the next big thing. "

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#48

Post by jeromec »

phlux wrote: post #46
jeromec wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, I agree that every business started as an idea. Everyone needs a starting point to act on, and that's what ideas are, starting points. However, I could have an idea to open a donut shop, and turn that into a profitable business even though there is nothing revolutionary or novel about such an idea. So, yes, you need both, but the thing to realize is that ideas will vary greatly in how much value they can p…

> One can easily sit and dream up 100 ideas in a day, but one can't develop 100 projects in a day. Exactly, so then - if that one idea - which the dev could put together using his skills were the billion dollar one - then the IDEA was what was so valuable. Not the fact that he had development skills. I just cant believe that ideas are worthless at all. They are worth what you can make of them - but they are never wor…

Billion dollar ideas which are novel and highly advantageous to execute on are very rare, and even then they require more than just having the idea. The founders of Google or YouTube, which could both be considered billion dollar idea/ventures, I'm sure will tell you making their businesses into successes was NOT a cakewalk. Things could have went (and did go) wrong along the way.

I just cant believe that ideas are worthless at all.

I've already said above I don't believe ideas are always totally worthless.

...but they are never worthless.

I disagree. I can generate a list of many totally worthless startup ideas fairly quickly.

You still seem to be placing a lot of value in ideas, as if they are the main thing that determines the success of a project. I fundamentally disagree with that, and as evidence of that most successful projects end up looking different than they did when they first started out. I also feel almost like you are suggesting developers are helpless until an "idea person" comes along. Again, I disagree with that. Anyone can have an idea, even great idea, including developers.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#49

Post by livejake »

tgflynn wrote: post #40
livejake wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the value of an idea is inversely related to the difficulty to execute the idea. The idea for the million dollar homepage was extremely valuable because the execution of the idea wasn't too technically difficult. There are plenty of freelancers who could implement that idea. Same with the idea for ChatRoulette and Groupon. If an idea is really difficult to implement, such as a better Google, then the idea…

But if the idea is easy to implement than anyone will be able to copy that idea and the value will tend to zero. My strategy is the opposite - take ideas that are often simple to state but whose execution is so complex as to tax the limits of the human mind. Then if I succeed I shouldn't have to worry much about competition (at least for a couple of years).

Easy to implement ideas are easy to copy, but that doesn't necessarily mean the value of the idea will tend to zero. See Woot, Groupon, Craigslist, etc. There are network effects and first mover advantages that help the first to implement an idea and gain traction. I would say your strategy follows my point. In your case, the ideas that are often simple to state aren't valuable. The value is all in the execution.

Re: Let’s End the Myth that Ideas Are Worthless

#50

Post by nlwhittemore »

A1kmm wrote: post #45

The article is fighting strawmen. I've never heard anyone say that starting off with a good idea isn't important. A good idea is a necessary but not a sufficient condition. What the author doesn't argue against is that potentially good ideas are fairly abundant and easily obtained. These 'potentially good ideas' (that is, ideas which sound like they would work, but for which there is not yet any good evidence either…

Actually, if we treat "ideas" as more than just the starting notion, but the myriad small decisions and vision of user behavior, and we look at the ecosystems of Startups, then "potentially good ideas" look a lot more scarce. The crowdfunding landscape is a great example. The "good idea" isn't about needing crowdfunding for x, it includes all of the decisions about incentives that make them work (or not). When the world is full of startups bouncing over really working through a problem and their vision of a solution - which is happening more and more in my experienc - it's not a straw man to make an argument that dismissing the value of ideas weakens the startup ecosystem
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