8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service • Hacker News Board

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#171

Post by piokoch » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

It seems that the Ohio gunman claimed to be rather left leaning and wanted sen. Warren to be next president. Probably he hasn't read 8chan but still started shooting. He also claimed to be pro-Satan leftist, whatever it can possibly mean. So, I would say, that both he and large majority of public place murderers, serial killers, etc. are simply very sick people and presence of lack of presence of some random internet site does not make much difference.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#172

Post by happytoexplain » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

h2odragon wrote: post #135

miguelmota wrote: post #86

Just like how we pull weeds in gardens all year round; deplatforming will remove majority of these users with undesirable qualities.

Right, all those people who were having fun on 8chan will now see the error of their ways, take up sensitivity training, and post only non-controversial things where ever they land next.

What are you using hyperbole to communicate? Can you be more explicit?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#173

Post by dd36 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #146

nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

If you block 8chan, the only thing that it will result in is people will move to more censorship-resistant technologies. You will push people to TOR, distributed P2P, blockchain forums, etc. Which will make even harder to identify them. You can't stop the signal. ThePirateBay proved it many many times. We need to address the sources of the problem, not the symptoms.

Part of the problem is ease of access. Making it harder to get to is good.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#174

Post by romaaeterna » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

If we're going to have internet censorship, I don't want it to be a backroom thing. It needs to be transparent, auditable, appealable, with bright line rules and due process guarantees.

It's unfortunate if we need to live with some level of censorship. But I don't accept it being carried out in back rooms by unaccountable companies operating hand-in-hand with illegal DDoS attacks. Put it out there in the open, and let's have a legal democratic process around it that tries to guarantee some amount of fairness and attempts to give the weak protection from the strong.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#175

Post by jolmg » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

I'm not really that well informed of 8chan, but bringing it down, while practical, doesn't seem like the ideal solution. Isn't it just like covering your eyes and pretending the problem isn't there? The problem doesn't sound like it's 8chan, but rather these people and their ideologies. If 8chan was brought down, they'll just find another hub to congregate, but now we don't know where to reach them to talk.

I thought the idea expressed by NearlyFreeSpeech.net in the following link was nice:

https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/about/faq#TheLongGame

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#176

Post by matt-attack » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #76

We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. What 8chan is doing is exactly the same, minus the Islamist part, yet there's hypocrisy in how they're treated vs e.g. the social media wing of ISIS. These people are trying to kill as many of us as possible. In no way should society accept it. It's simple societal self-defense. Ro…

> We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site

Why? Think about what you're saying. Imagine equivalents:

1. We wouldn't allow cell phones that let terrorists communicate

2. We wouldn't allow roads that allow anyone to carry whatever contra-ban they want down them.

3. We wouldn't allow trains that allow just anyone to carry books on whatever topic they want.

4. We can't allow for air that allows two willing participants to communicate using sound waves.

The hubris to imagine that we dare have a say in whether a group of adults date to communicate with each other.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#177

Post by thatcat » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #98

Let me start by stating my views on free speech and rights in general, and then how they are shaped by these events. I think that human rights and freedoms are just that: personal freedoms. Freedom of religion is about personal religious observance without harming others. These freedoms philosophically should not mean entitlement to unlimited exercise thereof. The right to bear arms doesn’t mean you should be able ab…

Please don't use capitalization to emphisize your points in the future.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#178

Post by akerro » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #76

We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. What 8chan is doing is exactly the same, minus the Islamist part, yet there's hypocrisy in how they're treated vs e.g. the social media wing of ISIS. These people are trying to kill as many of us as possible. In no way should society accept it. It's simple societal self-defense. Ro…

Facebook for a few weeks didn't want to remove video of a Mexican woman being beheaded. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/fa...

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#179

Post by spaginal » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

eridius wrote: post #79

nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

> it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists I mean, it literally radicalized white supremacist terrorists . There's no "had the potential" anymore, it's a fact. It also sounds like it held plenty of child porn, so I don't understand why it took until now for anyone to do anything about the site.

Are you of the belief that hatred and radicalization doesn’t exist in environments that lack free speech?

Lot’s of places on this planet have hyper radicalized portions of their populations that commit aggregious acts of violence, and they lack free speech.

Yet free speech is being used as the red herring to blame.

Unequivocally, your assessment of these forums causing the radicalization is wrong. Plain wrong. These people exist in any environment, they go into the shadows, they continue to lash out, and removing and restricting rights for every person DOES NOT STOP THIS BEHAVIOR.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#180

Post by o_p » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

This is a ridiculous witchhunt, 8chan is a platform for many different boards with different opinions, the media framing it as a right-wing white supremacist forum makes wonder if its ignorance or malice, /leftypol/ is probably as big as the /pol/ boogeyman, and thats just politics which is just a part of the rest of the boards.

No one is asking to close Facebook because Tarrant uploaded his shooting video there, why it would be any different in this case?