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“Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

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Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#111

Post by hackinthebochs »

ghaff wrote: post #97
hackinthebochs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its not immoral to use drugs it shouldn't be immoral to talk about it. "Trashy" is just an label for behavior deemed unwanted or associated with low class. But the parent (presumably) deemed using drugs not trashy by his own admission of using them.

It's also not immoral to have sex. It would be, at a minimum, very odd to share the blow-by-blow details of such activities the prior weekend with an interviewer. I don't think I'm being a prude to say I would probably close out that interview as soon as reasonably possible and move on.

I don't take the "dancing with Molly" as a blow-by-blow, more like an acknowledgement of a certain activity. But I wouldn't take acknowledging that you had sex to be trashy if relevant to the conversation. But the the interviewer made the dancing response relevant when they asked if they did anything noteworthy over the weekend.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#112

Post by notacoward »

This is very true, but it's also important to remember that the drift might not indicate that anyone has lost their way. The needs at a company of twelve people are different than the needs at a company of a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand. At the disruptor vs. the incumbent. Pre-profit vs. post-profit. I know people who have been first developer or first COO/CMO/VPE at multiple companies, leaving each without any rancor whatsoever when those companies outgrew their own ideal skillset and working style.

Sometimes people and companies naturally grow apart. While the OP's point that it's not always your fault is a good one, the conclusion (that if it's not your fault it must be the company's) does not follow. Sometimes it's not a fault. It's just a thing that happened.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#113

Post by itronitron »

subakdoman wrote: post #79
bb88 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually ask the questions differently: "Is it worth being paid $X to work here?" "What is the likelihood I'll be paid $X elsewhere" And if they're paying a lot of money, I can tolerate the crappy working conditions -- I first heard of this a couple decades ago as "crying all the way to the bank." A CEO that comes in to fix a company has a similar question. "It's going to be a nightmare to turn this company around,…

Interesting. I'm asking this question myself right now (crappy management+high stress but good pay/stock options). Of course the $ amount to satisfy 'worth it' differs for each person. Can you share your personal experience? How did you go about answering this question of 'is it worth it'?

It's important to keep in mind that organizations are dynamic and can change significantly in less than a year, even while keeping 95% of the same people. If there is one person making everyone's lives miserable then it may be worth sticking it out. In my own experience, people that were the most antagonistic or abusive toward their colleagues were also the closest to leaving the organization, either due to ambition, dissatisfaction, or personal illness/death.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#114

Post by vfc1 »

astura wrote: post #47
vfc1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with dancing with Molly?

"Molly" is another name for ecstasy/MDMA.

OK, I knew that there was something fishy about it. I thought initially that the poster was openly admitting to discriminate against gay people.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#115

Post by wool_gather »

bb88 wrote: post #88
subakdoman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I'm asking this question myself right now (crappy management+high stress but good pay/stock options). Of course the $ amount to satisfy 'worth it' differs for each person. Can you share your personal experience? How did you go about answering this question of 'is it worth it'?

So a large percent of people have a crappy job and work with crappy people and have crappy bosses. The last century of management still hasn't solved that issue, so it's likely going to be an issue for the next century. I ask myself these questions: 1. Do I have a life outside of work? "Yes" is a good thing. But "No" is not a deal breaker. 2. Is my identity of myself too entwined in the corporation? If "yes" it's tim…

Good list.

> How long does it take me to reset from "anger" and "frustration" to calm and productive? If I can't leave in the evening and forget about work then something's wrong.

I think it's worth noting that this one really has nothing at all to do with the job. Not to trivialize it at all; it's hard work to change your mind, but it's entirely within your court to learn how to recognize and work with your mental state like this. Therapy and meditation are two useful tools for that.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#117

Post by greenyoda »

rurban wrote: post #90
ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

This is a great post and so spot on. At some point in my career my 'review prep' (which was the time I spent working on my own evaluation of my year at a company) became answering the question, "Do I still want to work here?" I categorize my 'review' in four sections (which are each rated at one of five levels, needs improvement, sometimes meets expectations, meets expectations, sometimes exceeds expectations, or con…

Can you please put your CIP idea into a nice blog post, so that I can refer to it more easily. The best post in a year.

You can bookmark a comment on HN just as easily as a blog post. The "x hours ago" link in the comment header is a permanent link to the comment at the top of its own page, with its child comments below it.

As an example, here's the link to that comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20609978

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#118

Post by jorblumesea »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #67
jorblumesea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with this, but I often find that not everyone is in the same position to jump ship easily. Your attitude is often espoused by highly talented individual that could basically "work wherever". A personal anecdote from someone I work with. "Alice" is a technical project manager at a large company. She's been with the company 8 years. While she's been in the role, expectations on her have been unclear,…

That is absolutely true, and in the original article there was a mention of folks trapped by US visa rules (leave your job, go back to your origin country). To address your question though, if I were mentoring Alice I would ask which is more important to her, money or happiness? I learned long ago that it is useless to argue which is more important but it instructive to know in a person which one is key. If she think…

I appreciate your practicality and empathy. I know I'd want to be mentored by you.

At least in her situation (Seattle) the pay difference might be drastic enough that it would be a deal breaker. There's also the issue of lifestyle creep, where you now have a mortgage you can only afford with the stressful/unhappy position you have.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#119

Post by Double_Cast »

cwyers wrote: post #69
sixothree wrote: post #11

The company I work for definitely hires people who are not a "culture fit" and our company is better for it. People who bring different perspective make your products stronger.

I think the word "culture" is overloaded, such that it's really hard to talk about and you can make it mean whatever you want, but there's a use for it that I don't know a better way to describe in a word. Yes, there is "culture fit" in terms of things that don't matter, and where it does good to push a company outside of a comfort zone in order to get the best people and new perspectives. But at a certain point, you…

Another point of alignment is social protocols. The point of a protocol is commonality. "let's agree to disagree" isn't a solution.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#120

Post by Double_Cast »

rednixion wrote: post #39
cperciva wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

candidate showing some glaring interpersonal issues (I once had a guy who used the word "fuck" during an interview like 100 times) That sounds less like interpersonal issues and more like a tic disorder.

It is possible to have personality traits that are not a medical diagnosis.

to be fair, i feel like the new entries in the DSM V are basically personality traits.
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