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Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

taxwatchuk.org

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Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#211

Post by FDSGSG »

Fnoord wrote: post #124
FDSGSG wrote: post #6

It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…

> It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. How ironic that you had to post (as of now) 24 times in this very thread defending this condescending viewpoint. You're not at all addressing what the article mentions. I'll address what the article mentions. The article (quite clearly, in bold) mentions, at the top: > The company is currently under invest…

>how ironic

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

>You're not at all addressing what the article mentions

Weird, I think I've addressed pretty much everything your comment brings up.

However, I'd like to point out that there's nothing shady about structuring to minimize your tax burden. If the lawmakers didn't want you doing this, they'd simply write laws that don't allow it.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#212

Post by FDSGSG »

JudgeWapner wrote: post #166
FDSGSG wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say before the courts decide. I've personally been through such disputes with tax authorities and prevailed.

Do you shelter your money into "tax havens" ? If so, why do you cheat the system this way (note: I didn't ask the question "is this legal", so please don't bake that affirmation into your response).

Yes I do! After I got sick and tired of the nonsense games my local tax authority was playing, I moved out of the country and took all of my assets with me.

I did not mind paying the taxes, I did however mind the authorities trying to defraud me into paying non existent tax liabilities. They've since been forced to stop doing that.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#213

Post by FDSGSG »

stale2002 wrote: post #183
FDSGSG wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you share with us the correct amount of taxes Activision Blizzard should pay? As long as this remains an impossible question to answer then they should probably pay the least amount possible. I'm all for improving current tax regulations, but first we must agree that the problem is with the regulations.

Yes, the correct amount is definitely at least whatever the settlement that they agreed to, where blizzard has effectively admitted that they were wrong and broke the law. They broke the law. They lost. That's what the courts determined. What, do you not believe in the law or something? Because this is what the courts did. They said that blizzard was guilty, and therefore I judge them as such.

> Because this is what the courts did. They said that blizzard was guilty

That is not what the courts said.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#214

Post by kup0 »

throwaway07Ju19 wrote: post #43
devwastaken wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal /=/ moral

But making them equal is the goal. When they are unequal we create moral hazards. Moral hazard like this has to be least appealing part of having shareholders.

Do you mean in all areas of life or specifically companies / shareholders?

A person cheating on their spouse would pretty commonly be considered to be doing something "immoral"

Yet it would be ridiculous to make something like that illegal

I think the attempt to make moral and legal always align creates plenty of hazards itself

Especially if the moral code the law is based on something external and nowhere near universal (like religious sources, which disagree with each other, etc)

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#215

Post by daemin »

To me taxing revenue rather than profits seems like a better idea more and more now. Instead of taxing profits which makes it easy to do accounting tricks and export IP to other countries, a revenue tax would be applied wherever a company takes money in a given country.

It doesn't have to be high, maybe 1% or even less. It will drastically increase government revenue from company taxation and it would be much easier to administer.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#216

Post by selimthegrim »

adventured wrote: post #193
coldtea wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The big difference is that the elite here invent crazy-useful shit like online-shopping or iPhones or map-reduce. No elite ever invented any such things. Engineers working for the elites (and getting shit all for their invention most of the times) did. Same way the Pharaohs didn't built the pyramids themselves...

> No elite ever invented any such things. That's very easy to disprove as a claim. Engineers in the US and elsewhere routinely get very wealthy from companies they found or are involved with and their inventions. Robert Noyce invented the first practical integrated circuit and was quite wealthy. As a brilliant engineer he co-founded both Intel and Fairchild. There's probably nobody in the history of the semiconductor…

Gordon Moore had a chemistry degree but point taken

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#217

Post by stale2002 »

FDSGSG wrote: post #213
stale2002 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the correct amount is definitely at least whatever the settlement that they agreed to, where blizzard has effectively admitted that they were wrong and broke the law. They broke the law. They lost. That's what the courts determined. What, do you not believe in the law or something? Because this is what the courts did. They said that blizzard was guilty, and therefore I judge them as such.

> Because this is what the courts did. They said that blizzard was guilty That is not what the courts said.

From the article:

"In the United States, Activision Blizzard has recently settled a transfer pricing dispute with tax authorities for $345m"

It looks like Blizzard was guilty enough of tax evasion that they had to settle the case for 345m$.

If you have to settle a case for 345m$, then you are guilty enough for me to condemn you.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#218

Post by coldtea »

adventured wrote: post #193
coldtea wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The big difference is that the elite here invent crazy-useful shit like online-shopping or iPhones or map-reduce. No elite ever invented any such things. Engineers working for the elites (and getting shit all for their invention most of the times) did. Same way the Pharaohs didn't built the pyramids themselves...

> No elite ever invented any such things. That's very easy to disprove as a claim. Engineers in the US and elsewhere routinely get very wealthy from companies they found or are involved with and their inventions. Robert Noyce invented the first practical integrated circuit and was quite wealthy. As a brilliant engineer he co-founded both Intel and Fairchild. There's probably nobody in the history of the semiconductor…

Is this supposed to be a counter argument to what I wrote? As if I wasn't aware of those stories?

Many of those (the ones who still do relevant work themselves) are hardly elites -- rather small change (e.g. Torvalds).

And the elite rest did their personal inventing before they become elites (Jobs or Ellison, for example, didn't do much inventing as billionaires).

Afterwards the inventing (when they were not actively stifling innovation, like Oracle and MS) was done by their employees...

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#219

Post by mobilemidget »

Fnoord wrote: post #209
mobilemidget wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends who you ask though, who is paying the taxes. But true, the real punishment comes if you decide not to pay your taxes...

Those who claim they're being punished whilst paying taxes are being dishonest and inaccurate. Unless they got punished after they decided to not pay their taxes (that is, as we agree, a punishment). However, such is a punishment by law, and therefore we should assume the punishment is fair (until proven otherwise). The -in this example- sales tax gets in a big chest. Some of that chest goes to healthcare. Same for s…

Where did you read me writing this?
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