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“Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

rachelbythebay.com

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Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#101

Post by Traster »

BFLpL0QNek wrote: post #64

For all the rhetoric in the tech industry over diversity, "Culture Fit" seems a bit of a catch all exit hatch and anything but diverse.

Well, let's be real - there's good diversity and bad diversity. No one says "We need more diversity" and means "At the moment everyone in the office has good hygiene standards, let's bring in someone who smells".

The problem is that "Culture Fit" is often undefined - rarely is it explicit enough for us to say: "Our culture is x,y,z. This person showed this behavior so it's a no".

Although one thing I will say as an interviewer is I've had to reject candidates on "Culture Fit" in the past based on things like "This candidate talks way too much and it's so disruptive and frustrating that I literally can't get through the competency part of the interview". However, there is no way I'm going to feed that back to the candidate- so often Culture Fit is used as a neutral way of rejecting someone.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#103

Post by C1sc0cat »

mpweiher wrote: post #43
throwaway42688 wrote: post #9

Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I’m mid-way through my first experience with this. Some warning flags to add for anyone wondering if it’s them or you: - You’re beginning to wonder if it’s you that’s crazy, despite successful previous roles. - Their conversation has moved from “we” to “I” (or “you” and “us”). - Your number of known unknowns (usually people- or business-based) suddenly spikes for no apparent rea…

I've had that (the gaslighting) happen to me so many times. "You didn't do this assignment" "Er, yes I did, here it is" "Well, you didn't keep me up-to-date on it" "Er, here are my weekly status report e-mails" "But you know I don't read my e-mails" Huh? Another good one was the following: I had assigned one of my reports a task before going on vacation. During said vacation, my "manager" pulls said report from that…

"I don't read my e-mails" sounds like a grievance case "Manager X is NCI because …"

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#104

Post by ps101 »

lacampbell wrote: post #84
whateveracct wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relatively easy to find another job in tech. You should always be aware that you can, in fact, peace out of the culture or a boss is shitty.

That's highly tied to geography

And the overall economic situation - I'm too young to have experience of the job market during the last recession but I can't imagine that switching jobs or starting a career was a great experience at the time.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#105

Post by C1sc0cat »

tim58 wrote: post #31
joe_the_user wrote: post #14

Any kind of "fit" should be a two-way street but it usually isn't (or maybe it's nine lane super highway one-direction and pitted gravel road in the other direction). They have lots of money that they might spend on your arguably good skill set. You have a bit of money you might use to hold out until one better fit comes along. They (for a sad portion of "they") can afford crappy "fits" in terms of competence if it f…

> You have a bit of money you might use to hold out until one better fit comes along. > What can you afford? I've done contracting work in between W2 jobs. In the full swing of contracting I make ~25% more money but I prefer the stability and simplistically of working a full time salary position (guaranteed two paychecks a month, better health insurance, fully clocked out by 6pm). I absolutely won't go into a full ti…

Why Only 25% ?

I just had to point out in the UK to a recruiter pitching me a short term contact at straight time instead of at contract rates is taking the piss.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#106

Post by AstralStorm »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #67
jorblumesea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with this, but I often find that not everyone is in the same position to jump ship easily. Your attitude is often espoused by highly talented individual that could basically "work wherever". A personal anecdote from someone I work with. "Alice" is a technical project manager at a large company. She's been with the company 8 years. While she's been in the role, expectations on her have been unclear,…

That is absolutely true, and in the original article there was a mention of folks trapped by US visa rules (leave your job, go back to your origin country). To address your question though, if I were mentoring Alice I would ask which is more important to her, money or happiness? I learned long ago that it is useless to argue which is more important but it instructive to know in a person which one is key. If she think…

To a certain point, money is happiness. Maybe the solution is checking out and fighting for reduced hours, while doing fulfilling things with the extra money you wouldn't be able to get anywhere else.

(While at the same time looking for another job.)

Just try to not get fired in the meantime.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#107

Post by close04 »

darkseas wrote: post #86
subakdoman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I'm asking this question myself right now (crappy management+high stress but good pay/stock options). Of course the $ amount to satisfy 'worth it' differs for each person. Can you share your personal experience? How did you go about answering this question of 'is it worth it'?

I've seen this posed the other way. "How much money would it take to have me quit immediately?" On bad days, a grand or two would do it. But I guess this a combination of both love/hate for your job and any current financial commitments..

The problem is a pay bump usually only motivates you for so long. Once you are above a threshold and don't have to worry about empty pockets (so you meet a subjective minimum standard), every additional $ might motivate for a period and then the effect is weak or gone. And then you need another pay bump to motivate you.

On the other hand horrible managers, colleagues, or general work conditions will grind you every day, long after the effect of that pay bump wears off. Bad working conditions of any kind are far more effective at dragging your spirit down than money is effective at pulling it up.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#108

Post by AstralStorm »

hnzix wrote: post #53
mieseratte wrote: post #3

You’d be amazed at corporate ability to find excuses for their canaries departure. Sometimes to the degree that you could be forgiven for assuming their goal was downsizing without layoffs.

> downsizing without layoffs It's the most destructive form of downsizing for the company, as the competent staff who have options jump ship and only the dregs are left hanging around.

And the good people will bad-mouth you later. Losing you further potential good hires.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#109

Post by AstralStorm »

cperciva wrote: post #87
rednixion wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to have personality traits that are not a medical diagnosis.

Absolutely. And if he was swearing occasionally, I'd say it was a personality trait. But swearing 100 times in an hour? That's rather extreme -- and a high stress situation like an interview is exactly when such a disorder would show up the most.

So, why didn't the interviewer ask the important question about apparently excessive swearing?

It's as if interviewers are lazy and guess.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#110

Post by AstralStorm »

m0zg wrote: post #82
cperciva wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

candidate showing some glaring interpersonal issues (I once had a guy who used the word "fuck" during an interview like 100 times) That sounds less like interpersonal issues and more like a tic disorder.

If it were, I'd understand. I'm quite aware and accommodating of autism spectrum issues. But the guy was just arrogant and acted with an unwarranted degree of familiarity towards me just because we're from the same country. I'm of the opinion that where the candidate was born should buy them absolutely nothing. Many interviewers don't share this opinion BTW. Some will give overt preference to their compatriots, possi…

Ah. Thanks for clarification. :)
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