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“Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

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Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#71

Post by bb88 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #68
jedberg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is wonderful. As a company founder (and de-facto CEO), I'd love it if all of my employees did this every year (or even continuously!). I think I am going to steal this and make it part of an annual review process (once we get big enough to have those). I did notice however that one thing that isn't your list is your salary. I'm curious if that was intentional or not?

Salary as a variable has changed over time; Initially of course there was a minimum to meet my goals. My target was to be able to live somewhere, cover my cost of living, pay down my debts, and save 10% of my salary in long term savings. Then as expenses started moving from being "in the future" to being "in the past" I was able to be more flexible on salary. It helps that I have never equated what I was paid with ho…

I usually ask the questions differently:

    "Is it worth being paid $X to work here?"  
    "What is the likelihood I'll be paid $X elsewhere"
And if they're paying a lot of money, I can tolerate the crappy working conditions -- I first heard of this a couple decades ago as "crying all the way to the bank."

A CEO that comes in to fix a company has a similar question. "It's going to be a nightmare to turn this company around, is the pay worth it?"

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#72

Post by jedberg »

bradlys wrote: post #70
ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

This is a great post and so spot on. At some point in my career my 'review prep' (which was the time I spent working on my own evaluation of my year at a company) became answering the question, "Do I still want to work here?" I categorize my 'review' in four sections (which are each rated at one of five levels, needs improvement, sometimes meets expectations, meets expectations, sometimes exceeds expectations, or con…

Is this something you've always done or only something you've done as you've gained higher level positions? I'm imagining that compensation is always at some minimum satisfactory level as well (and it must be rather high unless you're wealthy or bought a home decades ago or live in some really LCOL area?). Do you only work at places that you truly want to work at from the get go? I can't imagine implementing this at…

At a startup seems like the best place to do this. It's where you can best answer the questions and where you can effect the most change.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#73

Post by rongenre »

el_dev_hell wrote: post #15
m0zg wrote: post #4

Cuture fit is a blank check to fail a person's interview just because you didn't like them in the first 30 seconds. Short of the candidate showing some glaring interpersonal issues (I once had a guy who used the word "fuck" during his interview like 100 times) it is categorically impossible to establish in a 45 minute interview whether a person is actually a "fit" or not. So it's mostly a legitimized form of hiring b…

> Cuture fit is a blank check to fail a person's interview just because you didn't like them in the first 30 seconds. I hear this all the time. Yeah, that might be true in some cases, but it's also valid in quite a lot of instances (like the example you provided). > it is categorically impossible to establish in a 45 minute interview whether a person is actually a "fit" or not I've run/sat in on several trainwreck in…

I don't see this as a culture issue, but really poor professionalism. These are people who don't seem to realize that work small-talk is... at work.

My non-work life is by most measures pretty unusual. But my answer during the Monday standups to "what did you do on the weekend?" is.. "Oh, not much, some housecleaning and laundry".

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#74

Post by michaelchisari »

stuntkite wrote: post #44
bitshaker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget about these https://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html

Very interesting read. The article has a dead link to something Anton LaVey wrote called "NOT ALL VAMPIRES SUCK BLOOD!". I'm not a Santanist and had never read it before, but it's pretty spot on. https://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/73307/20/LaVey_-_The_...

And now I know where the "energy vampire" from What We Do In The Shadows draws inspiration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nyZqO0AclU

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#75

Post by ChuckMcM »

bradlys wrote: post #70
ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

This is a great post and so spot on. At some point in my career my 'review prep' (which was the time I spent working on my own evaluation of my year at a company) became answering the question, "Do I still want to work here?" I categorize my 'review' in four sections (which are each rated at one of five levels, needs improvement, sometimes meets expectations, meets expectations, sometimes exceeds expectations, or con…

Is this something you've always done or only something you've done as you've gained higher level positions? I'm imagining that compensation is always at some minimum satisfactory level as well (and it must be rather high unless you're wealthy or bought a home decades ago or live in some really LCOL area?). Do you only work at places that you truly want to work at from the get go? I can't imagine implementing this at…

Not always, when I got out of school I just went to work.

It helped that my wife was doing similar work (she was a computer programmer) and we compared notes about our jobs. Now I personally think getting married was a good choice in my life but for this conversation it was extremely valuable to have someone at a different company with whom I could be completely honest and exchange thoughts and ideas with. When my wife left Xerox for Tandem one of the books she got was called "Divorcing a Company." We both read it. I would say that book was when I stopped looking at companies being a "one way" kind of thing, either they want me or they don't.

The book's thesis was that you are in a relationship with the company you work for, it can be a good relationship, and it can be an abusive relationship. Looking at your choice to leave, and the things that keep you from leaving, as you might a divorce from a spouse, can put into perspective who is more "at fault."

I started thinking about why I was working at a company more critically at that point and then as time progressed developed a set of things that were the key factors in my job satisfaction.

To this point, "They're much happier to lose ICs than change." I agree completely. And that is why for me it was important to accept that people who won't see a reasonable request for what it is, are not worth wasting your time with. I doubt I will die thinking "I wish I had worked for an abusive boss longer" :-)

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#76

Post by ChuckMcM »

sidlls wrote: post #57
ChuckMcM wrote: post #33

This is a great post and so spot on. At some point in my career my 'review prep' (which was the time I spent working on my own evaluation of my year at a company) became answering the question, "Do I still want to work here?" I categorize my 'review' in four sections (which are each rated at one of five levels, needs improvement, sometimes meets expectations, meets expectations, sometimes exceeds expectations, or con…

Amazing; this is just about how I approach it, except I have a bit more slack for the "CIP": 90 days is not a long time at many organizations larger than a certain size (say, about 100 people). I'm generally content as long as progress is being made to improve at a reasonable pace, and few or no regressions occur.

To be fair, the only time I saw a complete reversal of state in a short period of time was during the dot com implosion. The CEO at the company just lost it (he was under a lot of stress), and the working conditions went from meets to needs improvement remarkably quickly.

And its possible to have one aspect being wonderful to compensate for another aspect which is not so great. For example the company mission might suck but you really like your manager and your co-workers.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#77

Post by Auready »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #66
heavenlyblue wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be absolutely fair, being all into drugs myself - if someone actually used a phrase “I danced at a festival with my friend molly”, I would absolutely never want to spend my time with them again. That literally is the trashiest thing you can ever say.

What's your definition of trashy here if its not simply using drugs?

There's a big difference between using drugs discreetly and using drugs and talking about it in an inappropriate situation.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#78

Post by xmprt »

bb88 wrote: post #71
ChuckMcM wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary as a variable has changed over time; Initially of course there was a minimum to meet my goals. My target was to be able to live somewhere, cover my cost of living, pay down my debts, and save 10% of my salary in long term savings. Then as expenses started moving from being "in the future" to being "in the past" I was able to be more flexible on salary. It helps that I have never equated what I was paid with ho…

I usually ask the questions differently: "Is it worth being paid $X to work here?" "What is the likelihood I'll be paid $X elsewhere" And if they're paying a lot of money, I can tolerate the crappy working conditions -- I first heard of this a couple decades ago as "crying all the way to the bank." A CEO that comes in to fix a company has a similar question. "It's going to be a nightmare to turn this company around,…

If the money doesn't really matter all that much to you then I suppose some people wouldn't be willing to sacrifice their happiness once their basic needs and wants are met.

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#79

Post by subakdoman »

bb88 wrote: post #71
ChuckMcM wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary as a variable has changed over time; Initially of course there was a minimum to meet my goals. My target was to be able to live somewhere, cover my cost of living, pay down my debts, and save 10% of my salary in long term savings. Then as expenses started moving from being "in the future" to being "in the past" I was able to be more flexible on salary. It helps that I have never equated what I was paid with ho…

I usually ask the questions differently: "Is it worth being paid $X to work here?" "What is the likelihood I'll be paid $X elsewhere" And if they're paying a lot of money, I can tolerate the crappy working conditions -- I first heard of this a couple decades ago as "crying all the way to the bank." A CEO that comes in to fix a company has a similar question. "It's going to be a nightmare to turn this company around,…

Interesting. I'm asking this question myself right now (crappy management+high stress but good pay/stock options). Of course the $ amount to satisfy 'worth it' differs for each person. Can you share your personal experience? How did you go about answering this question of 'is it worth it'?

Re: “Culture fit” is a two way street (2018)

#80

Post by hackinthebochs »

Auready wrote: post #77
hackinthebochs wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your definition of trashy here if its not simply using drugs?

There's a big difference between using drugs discreetly and using drugs and talking about it in an inappropriate situation.

If its not immoral to use drugs it shouldn't be immoral to talk about it. "Trashy" is just an label for behavior deemed unwanted or associated with low class. But the parent (presumably) deemed using drugs not trashy by his own admission of using them.
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