The big little lie of the TV kitchen island • Hacker News Board

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#41

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 11:51 PM UTC

anon4242 wrote: post #34

IshKebab wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60 hours a week? You think housewives are doing 8½ hours of solid house work every single day? Yeah, no.

I guess you have some solid data to support that statement? I unfortunately only have anecdotal evidence that 60h is not implausible. Me and my wife have two kids and share most of the household work, it's not an even split (she does more). I would say that on average we both work from the time we get back home from work until the kids sleep, ~4hrs later. In addition to that, one of us probably spends some 30 mins ea…

Are we counting all time spent with children as a chore?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a father of two. Like you, our work is not split evenly, though I like to think I take on a higher share than most similarly situated men. There are times when my time with my sons can be trying, and I can get behind counting some fraction of that time as work.

On the other hand, just today my son and I spent three hours going to and from a playdate with a friend of his. I'm also friends with the dad. It was a pleasant time for all involved, and we got some sun and some exercise. This is not an atypical way for us to spend a Sunday afternoon. If this is accounted for as "work" then I would say the statistic is a bit misleading, as that is not something most people I know would consider labor.

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#42

Post by stuntkite » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 12:39 AM UTC

stonogo wrote: post #12

This article is about a TV soap opera, and it might have been more obvious (and saved me a click) had the submitter not pointlessly altered the capitalization of the headline.

I read through the first quarter of it three times before I figured out that it's a confusing advertisement for a TV show rather than a discussion on the history of kitchen islands. I honestly couldn't find any useful information. It reads like it was written by a plausibly seeded neural net.

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#43

Post by mraudiobook_com » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 12:40 AM UTC

anm89 wrote: post #2

"Over the decades, as versions of this housewife’s setup have eliminated dining rooms, pass-throughs, and farmhouse tables, the open-concept kitchen, centered around an island visible from all sides, has become not a labor-saving device but a stage on which (mostly) women are forced to perform." I gave up here. This is so stupid that I'm not sure what is the premise that I should critique. Also Im a guy who cooks in…

You must just hate women and like "putting them on display".

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#44

Post by jraines » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #39

jraines wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, yes. Unless you are very junior, you 1) have to do those things 2) are paid for the time spent doing them 3) will not keep your job long if you simply neglect them or refuse to do them I'm honestly baffled by these responses.

I'm pretty senior and I barely think about work outside my forty hours a week of in-office time. An hour or two a week, most weeks, I'd guess. Maybe your experience is just different from other people? I find the 8 1/2 hours a day statistic to be perhaps true, since some types of work expand to fill the time allotted. I don't believe the 5.7 hrs a day statistic for working moms, though. That would imply that a workin…

40 vs 60 hours isn't really the issue. It's: what counts as "work" to be included in the total, and more narrowly, what counts as "housework"?

My whole argument is that just as cooking, cleaning, and laundry shouldn't be all that's considered "housework"; coding, deploying, etc aren't all there is to "work" as a programmer.

I think "homemaking" makes the distinction clearer in the narrow case. In the larger sense, I'm just saying that "work" isn't just what's on your job title or how you'd describe yourself, e.g. "coder", but "all of that which is necessary to fulfill your duty".

I think there are a large number of working moms who'd agree with the statement, taken not literally but also not hyperbolically: "I spend essentially all my waking non-work time on homemaking (housework + parenting)"

I'm not making a squishy argument about "emotional labor" either, but if it means anything at all, it definitely includes attending to the emotional needs of your children & partner

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#45

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:29 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

anm89 wrote: post #2

"Over the decades, as versions of this housewife’s setup have eliminated dining rooms, pass-throughs, and farmhouse tables, the open-concept kitchen, centered around an island visible from all sides, has become not a labor-saving device but a stage on which (mostly) women are forced to perform." I gave up here. This is so stupid that I'm not sure what is the premise that I should critique. Also Im a guy who cooks in…

There's an excellent book about the history of domestic technology called "More work for mother." It details how the more domestic tech we created, the more work shifted from the man of the house to the lady of the house and standards were raised Three hundred years ago, full-time wives did about 60 hours/week of housework. Today, with all our modern appliances, they still do about 60 hours/week of housework. In most…

[deleted]

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#46

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 6:51 AM UTC

stuntkite wrote: post #42

stonogo wrote: post #12

This article is about a TV soap opera, and it might have been more obvious (and saved me a click) had the submitter not pointlessly altered the capitalization of the headline.

I read through the first quarter of it three times before I figured out that it's a confusing advertisement for a TV show rather than a discussion on the history of kitchen islands. I honestly couldn't find any useful information. It reads like it was written by a plausibly seeded neural net.

[deleted]

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#47

Post by goto11 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 7:08 AM UTC

Hey everyone, before you comment: This article is a reviews of the HBO TV-show Big Little Lies. If you don't know or care about the show, the article will probably be of little interest to you.

HN seems to be interpreting the article as a general critique of open-plan kitchens. Apparently HN cares a lot more about kitchen islands than about mainstream TV-shows!

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#48

Post by goto11 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #28

When the author mentioned the “messy kitchen” I thought it was a joke. Now I realise, as a European, that American house design is just absurd form over function. If you need a second, practical kitchen to deal with your main kitchen not being usable for its ostensible purpose then something is horribly wrong.

The idea of a "messy kitchen" certainly exist in Europe, see Scullery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scullery It is not a new invention.

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#49

Post by ghobs91 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

"Over the decades, as versions of this housewife’s setup have eliminated dining rooms, pass-throughs, and farmhouse tables, the open-concept kitchen, centered around an island visible from all sides, has become not a labor-saving device but a stage on which (mostly) women are forced to perform."

Or...it's a convenient place to assemble ingredients away from the stove/oven area.

This is such an incredibly absurd reach I don't know where to begin. Yet another example of trying to garner clicks and views with provocative journalism.

Re: The big little lie of the TV kitchen island

#50

Post by happytoexplain » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #25

anm89 wrote: post #2

"Over the decades, as versions of this housewife’s setup have eliminated dining rooms, pass-throughs, and farmhouse tables, the open-concept kitchen, centered around an island visible from all sides, has become not a labor-saving device but a stage on which (mostly) women are forced to perform." I gave up here. This is so stupid that I'm not sure what is the premise that I should critique. Also Im a guy who cooks in…

I had the same reaction at the exact same point in the article. Are couples out there really not sharing chore responsibilities? Maybe my wife just got lucky. Whatever. In any case I don't see what the kitchen island could possibly have to do with it. I initially clicked on the article because I, a male, am excited about getting an island so that I can use it to cook for my family!

I agree with you and the parent post. I'm a husband who does most of the cooking and cleaning, and I couldn't live without a kitchen island. Also, I love having a big, open, combined cooking/dining/socializing space. My wife, and my mother (who does 100% of the cooking and cleaning in her family) both agree on all counts.

I do, however, think the author is making a reasonable point in general - but the specific example and the tone misfired.