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Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

taxwatchuk.org

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Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#151

Post by ravitation »

charlesdm wrote: post #125
ravitation wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being a little consciously naive. Choosing not to prosecute (especially because prosecuting tax fraud requires proof of willfulness) and simply collecting a tax deficit is pretty common, especially in cases of corporate tax evasion. The disagreement in this case is called a tax deficit, and is what I meant by wrong. It's also the first necessary part of tax fraud. EDIT: Also, if you read about the sour…

It all depends on the amounts being moved. Transfer pricing is complex because what is market rate in situation A is not market rate in situation B. $345 million could be a minor difference of a few percentage points on tens of billions in revenue. Just like FDSGSG wrote above, I went through a sizeable tax dispute (for an individual, outside of the US) and won. I have a good understanding of tax law yet it was nothi…

Yes, obviously the settlement reflects analysis by Activision Blizzard, which is exactly the point. The expected outcome of challenging an assessed tax deficit is part of that analysis, so the choice to settle must be viewed with that in mind.

I wish both you and the thread OP would stop comparing this to A) personal (or small business) tax disputes and B) tax disputes that resulted in no additional tax liability. This dispute did result in additional tax liability.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#152

Post by vernie »

FDSGSG wrote: post #30
CogitoCogito wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem isn't with the corporations, the problem (if it exists at all!) may be with the legislation. > Complain about the law. Do you not suppose that these large corporations with so much money at stake do not in fact use their resources to ensure that laws take their current form? Do believe they are somehow innocent actors in this drama?

I'm absolutely sure Activision Blizzard (a relatively small company) had no significant impact on how these laws were written.

I wish people would stop bullying these modest ~$40B companies.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#153

Post by caconym_ »

FDSGSG wrote: post #6

It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…

It's downright ridiculous to equate expressions of dissatisfaction with the current state of tax law (allowing wealthy entities to exploit all sorts of loopholes clearly not in the spirit of paying your taxes) with some straw-man "complaining" about such activity despite the fact that these entities are probably behaving mostly within the bounds of the law "just like everybody else".

Guess what: laws change, and some people think these laws should be changed so that these entities can no longer dodge the tax burden one might naively expect them to face if no loopholes existed. That's what people are talking about when these topics come up. Reducing that to "complain about [...] perfectly legal" is either disingenuous or ignorant on your part.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#154

Post by leereeves »

karlp wrote: post #145
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't make the mistake of equating paying more tax with the betterment of society. I think it was PJ O'Rourke who said something like giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

Well, I don't know if you have seen the places where politicians have neither money nor power, but it's not pretty.

Where are these places where politicians have neither money nor power?

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#155

Post by ChrisLomont »

caconym_ wrote: post #153
FDSGSG wrote: post #6

It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…

It's downright ridiculous to equate expressions of dissatisfaction with the current state of tax law (allowing wealthy entities to exploit all sorts of loopholes clearly not in the spirit of paying your taxes ) with some straw-man "complaining" about such activity despite the fact that these entities are probably behaving mostly within the bounds of the law "just like everybody else". Guess what: laws change, and som…

The parent didn’t create a straw man; you did.

The article is not criticizing the laws. The article is criticizing Activision for following the law, exactly what the parent stated.

Maybe you read a different article focused on the law, not a single actor?

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#156

Post by FireBeyond »

Scoundreller wrote: post #66
pdpi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucas Pope has made very successful games out of being a passport control officer and an insurance agent, so I'm sure he can manage a tax optimisation game too.

I could see it now. Starbucks develops a "new brew". They fly the best coffee connoisseurs to a Liberian-flagged, Korean-built ship sailing from Saipan to Nauru, and develop a new formula there with equal parts Arabic beans and Robusta beans. They sell this new product worldwide, with marketing from a PR team domiciled in Malta, but operating in the Netherlands. Where was the value created?

Blizzard's programmers develop a game in the US. It's hosted on US servers. It has an in-game currency system/DLC system, also hosted in the US, and processes card transactions in the US.

However, at the same time, they claim that the entity that runs the DLC purchase system is in Malta, where Blizzard has no employees, but uses an outside legal and accounting firm.

They claim all the value is in Malta.

I tend to disagree.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#157

Post by woodruffw »

FDSGSG wrote: post #6

It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…

The article you're replying to includes claims that amount to tax fraud. In other words, the governments in question are claiming that Activision is not paying what the law demands.

But more generally: I don't think anybody seriously believes that you should pay the government more than it's due. What people (myself included) believe is that the government is due more than it currently demands from the wealthy and from large corporations.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#158

Post by headsoup »

Retric wrote: post #141
anm89 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is at best half true. There are professional lobbying organizations that have vastly more resources and know how than individuals. And when people complain about lobbyists everyone knows that a this is what is being referenced.

The well connected, paid, lobbyists, who need to register, are only the tip of the iceberg. So called grass roots lobbying generally involves well funded groups organizing or convincing individuals to do the talking. Pretending that’s somehow different from paid lobbyists is missing how politics works. Companies and Unions for example are often at odds on specific issues, but they both get sincere individuals to be d…

I only assume the poster above is really referring to corruption, where companies with vested interests are not just 'lobbying' for their outcome, but buying them outright...

Otherwise there is (or at least should be) no difference.

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#159

Post by selimthegrim »

leereeves wrote: post #154
karlp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't know if you have seen the places where politicians have neither money nor power, but it's not pretty.

Where are these places where politicians have neither money nor power?

Theocracies, military dictatorships

Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens

#160

Post by patientplatypus »

FDSGSG wrote: post #6

It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…

Umm...you know that all the laws are made by rich people right? We just had the biggest tax write off in history and you're coming in here with this BS? WOOOOWWWW
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