How Sydney destroyed its trams for love of the car • Hacker News Board

Re: How Sydney destroyed its trams for love of the car

#121

Post by cylinder » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

daemin wrote: post #94

cylinder wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah there are so many whingers in Australia who hate change! The new tram is much needed and George St is much better off with this than the hellscape of buses and cars. The southeast desperately needs a proper link to the city. As someone who moved from overseas to Sydney, I am excited about the new line, and WestConnex was desperately needed too. I'm grateful for all the infrastructure coming online here. $3 billion…

The big thing about WestConnex was that it fed many lanes of traffic into a tiny crowded one lane street that has a lot of pedestrian traffic as well. Maybe that's a bit of NIMBY but generally after new highways are built they are effectively choked off by the roads that feed in and out of them, especially ones where people want to exit on.

I mean, the Harbour Tunnel does that onto S Dowling St, yes, it's congested but still works better than going through the city...

Re: How Sydney destroyed its trams for love of the car

#122

Post by flukus » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 2:53 AM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #96

flukus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rails are notoriously bad for cyclists. These ones are basically a small bump, you don't even slow down when you go over them. If you're riding along them they can be slippery and you can get stuck in the grooves, but they're in the middle of the road so this isn't really an issue.

You're picturing someone crossing at a right-angle to the tram tracks, as one might cross a train track at a level crossing. In that case you would indeed only get a small bump! But if you cycle in the direction the tram travels - as you would if it was a bus lane, or a car would in a lane shared between trams and cars - then [1] can happen. Wheel goes into the groove in the road, cycle can't no longer steer, so it c…

> You're picturing someone crossing at a right-angle to the tram tracks

I'm picturing that because it's the most common occurrence. When your traveling in the same direction as the tracks then those tracks are always out in the center of the road and your as far left as possible. The only times I've been caught in the tracks was when I'm trying to turn right from the middle in which case a hook turn is usually better. You also need a bit of caution when your crossing curving tracks.

They aren't notoriously bad and in practice barely an issue, there are far bigger things to worry about.

Re: How Sydney destroyed its trams for love of the car

#123

Post by emmelaich » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

blaser-waffle wrote: post #116

emmelaich wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The fact that it cost _so_ much is part of why we should not have public transport on rails. The money would have far better spent on better and more buses. And dedicated bus lanes and roads. I have an inside story on the tram (light rail) construction. Workers were hired and literally did nothing for months. No wonder it cost so much.

So the problem is corrupt and lazy managers, not that trams are bad.

Yep, but trains/trams have a romantic aura which is exploited.

And being a fixed high visibility project makes it so much easier to exploit.

Re: How Sydney destroyed its trams for love of the car

#124

Post by mercer » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

kmlx wrote: post #97

I lived in Amsterdam a number of years ago. There were people constantly hit and killed by trams. There was a constant health emergency with cyclists getting their wheels stuck in the lines and then damaging their kneecaps, shoulders you name it. Anyone know if Melbourne solved any of these issues?

I'd like to see some numbers to support that claim. I've lived in amsterdam for close to a decade and while the trams were something to watch out for, I can't remember any number of stories to indicate that they 'constantly' hit and killed people, and I was quite fond of their presence, generally speaking.

Re: How Sydney destroyed its trams for love of the car

#125

Post by devnulloverflow » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 11:03 PM UTC

falsedan wrote: post #109

devnulloverflow wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to get to some Sydney suburbs for the same reason. Though interestingly this includes rich areas like the Eastern Suburbs and Northern Beaches. I suspect fat-cat NIMBYs have been keeping the trains out for generations now.

no it's the geography, too hard and bumpy or waterlogged to drill tunnels

You don't have to drill tunnels. The North Shore line isn't on tunnels for the most part, but it also never goes anywhere near the shore.

I guess it's true that now you might need tunnels (especially for the eastern suburbs). But these lines could have been built many decades ago.