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Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

theguardian.com

241–250 of 315 posts

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#241

I saw a BBC short video while in Europe last summer. It was surreal. The video was basically showing how awesome these aerial surveillance platforms were. At one point the reporter walked out of the control center and started dancing outside. It looked like he was having a lot of fun watching himself from a few thousand feet up. If anyone manages to find it please post it. There was no talk about the privacy implicat…

Hey the good news for us is the ones in the US don't have self-guided missiles attached, right?

Anti hypersonic missile satelittes in low earth orbit will soon tho

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#242
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No not at all. The Chelsea Russell case 17 year old girl on facebook posted rap lyrics, we also have the 'Count Dankula' case which the Scottish court decided it was "Nazi Recruitment" ignoring the context where he clearly said "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" at the start of the video. I believe there is also a case where some Grime rappers were charged with hate speech for their songs ... this would be the…

Chelsea Russell: not convicted. Count Dankula: broadcast the phrase "gas the jews", then did not use a freedom of speech argument in court, instead saying "it was just a joke". His "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" defence failed because there's no evidence she even saw the video, and if he was just doing it to annoy her there was no need to broadcast it to his youtube channel. > I believe there is also a case…

> Chelsea Russell: not convicted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921

Yes she was. It was only overturned later because she has (I believe) autism.

The whole point I was making is that it should not happen in the first place.

Do you think we should be dragging autistic teenage girls through court because of rap lyric posted on facebook? I think it is ridiculous.

> Count Dankula: broadcast the phrase "gas the jews", then did not use a freedom of speech argument in court, instead saying "it was just a joke". His "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" defence failed because there's no evidence she even saw the video, and if he was just doing it to annoy her there was no need to broadcast it to his youtube channel.

The video was obviously a joke and if you just repeat the phrases said on their own without context they don't sound funny. The whole joke is that he is getting his dog which has no idea what those phrases mean to react to them. It is a really old gag that you do something stupid in front of an animal because they are the ultimate dead-pan actor.

As to why his girlfriend didn't see it, it went viral (via reddit) before he had the chance to show her. The reason why it was on Youtube is because they have a night where they just watch Youtube video together and he wanted it to be like a surprise prank. At the time (I know because I followed the case since he got arrested) he had 8 subscribers on his account. His story has been consistent from day one before he lawyered up.

Again he should have never been arrested over what was clearly intended as a joke.

MPs in the House of Commons admitted that the law should be under review because of his case.

The way you tell the situation doesn't give full picture. Almost every-time someone just cherry picks phrases from the video like you did I know they are being disingenuous.

> It's pretty hard to have this conversation with someone who admits they don't know what they're talking about.

The point is that you shouldn't have any legal proceeding against you because of a song. London Grime much like heavy metal (70s) and gangsta rap (80s and 90s) before them is being demonised by the moral puritans. I suspect they will take another run at violent video games once Doom Eternal comes out or GTA6.

This again is disingenuous of you. This makes it pretty obvious you aren't speaking in good faith. Bye.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#243
post #221

Is anyone else extremely bothered by the false equivalence of narcotics trafficking and the need for homeland security? This blurring of the lines between a multi-billion dollar _business_ (probably around 1% of the world's GDP) that in fact relies on the success of the state, and purported threats to the state itself strikes me as extremely dangerous. I'm contrasting this to American intelligence involvement in cent…

There seems to be a certain amount of violence that comes with the territory of illegal drug trafficking; that might not be national security per se, but it's certainly something within the government's purview. It's also not that much of a stretch to say that a public health crisis of drug addiction would be a kind of threat to national security. Of course, if that were the real thing, DHS should be going after the…

Well of course it's within the government's purview, but we have to draw a line between law enforcement and military-run surveillance somewhere, and it seems to me drug enforcement (violent or not) falls staunchly within the former's purview. The blurring of that line or its movement altogether strikes me as dangerous (cf. the mosaic theory of the 4th amendment [1]).

[1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2032821

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

In France we have a contract: if people are unhappy they rise against. If there's no risk of revolting, the fox is fearless in the chicken hen.

The US arguably has a much stronger version of this with the right to bear arms.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#245

I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?

This reminds me a bit of the "Harriet Tubman Sarah Connor brigade" (actual name). They were opposed to GPS satellites and knew they couldn't get them after they went up... so they successfully attacked them while they were on the ground (prelaunch) with wood axes. Did quite a bit of damage too. https://theatlantic.com/article/386656/

Are you comparing the surveillance balloons to GPS or are you saying it's best to disable before launch?

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to China? You don't have to imagine. Well the UK isn't much better now.

The UK has put millions of its citizens in prison because of their religion?

Well, large parts of Northern Ireland became a sort of open air prison for many Catholics for quite a while, with UK army patrols there treating anyone Catholic as essentially automatically guilty of something.

In those territories during that time, the UK army joined up with unionist para-militaries and became essentially a domestic terror force targeting a subsection of UK citizens, selected by the ethnicity indicated by their religion. Shooting unarmed citizens and torturing people became standard practice for sections of our miltary. Look up the Ballymurphy inquiry.

It is worth keeping in mind that it is also only very recently indeed, that it became legal in the UK for the head of state to be married to someone Catholic and it is still illegal for the head of state to actually be Catholic.

Just to be clear, I am not Protestant, Catholic, or Irish. I have no particular dog in this fight. It is just a section of fairly recent history that illustrates rather clearly that the UK is not above using the machinery of the state to target its own citizens based on their religion.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atmospheric scattering seems like a big problem, but not location or targeting. People find satellites by doing long exposures (ideally in the infrared) and then looking for movement that doesn't match the rotation of the earth - indeed, I think it's quasi-automated by now. It's rather astonishing what you can pick up with modern glass - there's videos on YouTube of the space station shot from the ground, and while i…

OK. But small balloons at 15-20 km? That don't reflect much light? Seems iffy to me. But maybe so. I wasn't thinking of massive physical damage. Just nuking the FPAs. Or perhaps small rockets. But guidance systems are hugely illegal to develop. Chaff might work to mask movements temporarily. Or wildfires, I suppose. Not that anyone sane would do that.

"guidance systems are hugely illegal to develop" Curious what laws cover this? I am sure they exist, just not explored this at all. Isn't GPS a 'guidance system'?

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's reasonable reason to believe that if things got to that point that the military would be likely to have split allegiance.

Split yes, down the middle or remotely evenly who knows. A confounding factor is that both the US and UK militaries have been fighting extended insurrection 'policing' actions for much of the last two decades, so you have an army that is used to been an occupying force. All that said a smart military commander would never use local troops in their own backyard anyway.

>All that said a smart military commander would never use local troops in their own backyard anyway.

Is why the local regiments were confined to barracks, the last time the UK felt the need to put tanks on the streets of Glasgow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_George_Square

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#250
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chelsea Russell: not convicted. Count Dankula: broadcast the phrase "gas the jews", then did not use a freedom of speech argument in court, instead saying "it was just a joke". His "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" defence failed because there's no evidence she even saw the video, and if he was just doing it to annoy her there was no need to broadcast it to his youtube channel. > I believe there is also a case…

> Chelsea Russell: not convicted. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 Yes she was. It was only overturned later because she has (I believe) autism. The whole point I was making is that it should not happen in the first place. Do you think we should be dragging autistic teenage girls through court because of rap lyric posted on facebook? I think it is ridiculous. > Count Dankula: broadcast the ph…

> It was only overturned later.

You realise that winning on appeal means the original conviction didn't happen right?

> The video was obviously a joke

First of all you claimed he was imprisoned for this, and he wasn't. This is yet another case that you don't understand that you think supports your point when it really doesn't.

He had a trial. He could have used a free speech defence. He chose not to. Importantly he was invited by the judge to make a freedom of speech (article 10) defence, and he chose not to.

> [11] Prior to being addressed by the petitioner at the conclusion of the trial, the sheriff had noticed that a written argument had been lodged by the petitioner,but not yet touched upon. In it, there was an oblique reference to Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (Freedom of Expression). This had asserted that the petitioner’s actions were “entirely compliant” with that article and that the exceptions in Article 10(2) were not applicable. There had been no other analysis. There was no reference to any compatibility issue. At the stage of submissions, the sheriff had specifically asked parties whether they intended to address him on freedom of expression at common law or in terms of the European Convention.

> [12] Despite the sheriff’s express invitation, which included mention of M’bala M’balav France, unreported,10November 2015, App No. 25239/13,there was no reference in the defence address to Article10. All that had been said by the petitioner about freedom of expression was that the court should be jealous to guard it. There was no compatibility minute, which, if such an issue were to be raised, ought to have been lodged in advance of the trial (Act of Adjournal (Criminal Procedure Rules) 1996, rules40.3 and 40.6).

He chose to use the "it was just a joke bro" defence, and failed because he couldn't show that she had even seen the video, and if he was pranking her there was no need to broadcast "gas the Jews" to his YouTube followers. He then tried this defence again for his appeal, and that failed too.

> he had 8 subscribers on his account.

He uploaded it to Youtube with the intent that it would be seen by other people, thus completing the crime. He could have made it a private video, he could have not uploaded it to YouTube. He communicated the video to other people and he had the intent that it would be seen by other people.

> “20... the primary purpose of the [petitioner] making the video was not to annoy [his girlfriend]: it was to make a highly offensive video for sharing on his You Tube channel for consumption by him and his subscribers; the [petitioner] willing (sic)for the video to be shared and viewed by anyone in the world”.

This is what was found at his original trial. He has not appealed against this finding.

> The way you tell the situation doesn't give full picture

You claimed he'd been imprisoned for it and he hasn't. But he uploaded a video containing Nazi imagery while he said, more than 20 times, "Gas The Jews". He knew this would cause offence. Causing offence was his intention. What have I missed out?

For you to claim that these 2 cases equate to widespread human rights abuse in China is laughable.

> The point is that you shouldn't have any legal proceeding against you because of a song

You still haven't named the cases. You're getting the genre wrong btw, it's drill not grime, and they were imprisoned for breaking an injunction that was aimed at tackling gang violence: they made credible death threats to other members of gangs.

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