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Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

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Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#81

Post by jaclaz »

JadeNB wrote: post #17
anonytrary wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic, everything is brilliant until it's not. That's not a good way to define "brilliant". Actions that eventually net undesirable consequences are stupid, not brilliant. E.g. Being a petty armed bank robber isn't brilliant until you get caught.

> Actions that eventually net undesirable consequences are stupid, not brilliant. I think it depends on how predictable the consequences are (it may be brilliant, or at least smart, to act in a way that offers a small possibility of an undesireable consequence in return for a large possibility of a highly desireable one), and on how long the time horizon is (it may be brilliant, or at least smart, to act in a way tha…

Carlo M.Cipolla to the rescue, The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla#/media/File:C...

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#82

Post by sumedh »

sumedh wrote: post #63
wpietri wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there were also plenty of people who didn't leave. And honestly, I think VCs are another good example of the problem here. They are notorious for being herd animals. They celebrate "pattern matching", by which they mean repeating the behaviors that previously led them to make money. If investors were all that good at thinking things through, they wouldn't have burned $1.4 billion dollars on Theranos.

> If investors were all that good at thinking things through, they wouldn't have burned $1.4 billion dollars on Theranos. Some of the investors were old and they were just happy to have a relatively attractive woman founder.

Cant edit my comment but the journalist John Carreyrou who broke the story said that.

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#83

Post by chrisseaton »

Alex3917 wrote: post #25
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #8

This is so bizarrely stupid, but it does lead to some questions: 1. What did this man think was going to happen? That Amazon would never open the boxes he returned? Certainly after 370k worth I'm surprised he didn't get flagged much earlier. 2. What normally happens to Amazon returns? The article makes it sound like they are rarely opened. That seems bizarre to me. I would have thought they'd have a system for proces…

> What did this man think was going to happen? That Amazon would never open the boxes he returned? To be fair Amazon actually sells bags of dirt, so if there is just a bar code and a bag of dirt then the person opening the box might not think anything of it.

> To be fair Amazon actually sells bags of dirt

Amazon sell literal dirt? Why? What does anyone buy that for?

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#84

Post by thinkingemote »

chrisseaton wrote: post #83
Alex3917 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What did this man think was going to happen? That Amazon would never open the boxes he returned? To be fair Amazon actually sells bags of dirt, so if there is just a bar code and a bag of dirt then the person opening the box might not think anything of it.

> To be fair Amazon actually sells bags of dirt Amazon sell literal dirt? Why? What does anyone buy that for?

When you see dirt around you in the world what is usually used for? Who uses it and are there other uses that occur out of sight but which are fundamentally essential for human survival?

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#85

Post by chrisseaton »

thinkingemote wrote: post #84
chrisseaton wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be fair Amazon actually sells bags of dirt Amazon sell literal dirt? Why? What does anyone buy that for?

When you see dirt around you in the world what is usually used for? Who uses it and are there other uses that occur out of sight but which are fundamentally essential for human survival?

I’ve no idea why anyone would need to use dirt. You’ll have to explain like I’m five, sorry.

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#86

Post by sys_64738 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #71
wpietri wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What did this man think was going to happen? I think you're giving him too much credit. People try things. They repeat the things that work. Most thinking happens when the behavior stops working. That's why long/broken feedback loops in systems are so dangerous. E.g., a big reason the Challenger disaster happened is NASA ignoring warning signs because they had gotten away with it before. If a zillion NASA engineers…

Was Theranos a bad deal, or did the people who worked there get paid handsomely for their part in the fraud?

This. I wonder why those who worked there and were party to to it were not prosecuted in some way for their part in the deceit. They allowed it to continue by not whistleblowing the issues. They should be charged somehow.

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#87

Post by sokoloff »

stefco_ wrote: post #54
wpietri wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What did this man think was going to happen? I think you're giving him too much credit. People try things. They repeat the things that work. Most thinking happens when the behavior stops working. That's why long/broken feedback loops in systems are so dangerous. E.g., a big reason the Challenger disaster happened is NASA ignoring warning signs because they had gotten away with it before. If a zillion NASA engineers…

> a zillion NASA engineers didn't really think it through when lives were on the line The in-depth investigation following the Challenger disaster [0] actually reached a slightly different conclusion: engineers tended to estimate ~1/100 launches would end in failure, while management estimates were about 3-6 orders of magnitude lower. The engineers did think it through; it was management that failed utterly and compl…

I don't see any evidence in the Rogers report summary that management believed the launch failure rate would be 1 in 10^8. It seems like the report suggests a management belief of 1 in 10^5 (which is still fantastically and unjustifiably optimistic given the complexity and historical track record of space missions, of course).

The typical reliable car fails to about as frequently as 1 in 10,000.

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#88

Post by qes »

Trias11 wrote: post #50
hangonhn wrote: post #35

I've encountered another scam regarding Amazon returns where the seller would ship from overseas. The item I ordered would be nothing like the description. So I filed for a refund and the seller was like "sure, here's the form and you can pay for shipping". As you can imagine because of the postage rates differences, it was a lot more expensive for me to send it back vs. the cost to them to ship to the US. In fact th…

>> Amazon's customer service is a huge part of the reason I order so much through them. Do i have time to go through multiple cycles of "get crap / return" until i get item I ordered? That's why I check more reputable stores first such as B&H first before succumbing to AMZN hit-n-miss-n-get-refund store.

> Do i have time to go through multiple cycles of "get crap / return" until i get item I ordered?

I do. Been ordering from Amazon since the 90's - my total purchases have exceeded 5 figures USD for many years - and I don't think I need more than one hand worth of fingers to count the mistaken items I've received.

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#89

Post by wpietri »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #71
wpietri wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What did this man think was going to happen? I think you're giving him too much credit. People try things. They repeat the things that work. Most thinking happens when the behavior stops working. That's why long/broken feedback loops in systems are so dangerous. E.g., a big reason the Challenger disaster happened is NASA ignoring warning signs because they had gotten away with it before. If a zillion NASA engineers…

Was Theranos a bad deal, or did the people who worked there get paid handsomely for their part in the fraud?

They burned $1.4 billion dollars and produced nothing useful. It was bad.

Re: Amazon allegedly scammed out of $370K by 22-year-old's return shipments of dirt

#90

Post by wpietri »

pas wrote: post #70
wpietri wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there were also plenty of people who didn't leave. And honestly, I think VCs are another good example of the problem here. They are notorious for being herd animals. They celebrate "pattern matching", by which they mean repeating the behaviors that previously led them to make money. If investors were all that good at thinking things through, they wouldn't have burned $1.4 billion dollars on Theranos.

There was always a chance that they make it. Every startup is just a nice wish, maybe a few good ideas, plus hopefully lucky and competent folks mixed with some money. The idea is great, everyone wants a lab on a chip. MEMS is coming, etc. Someone will eventually make it.

There was never a chance that Theranos would make it, because, per POSIWID, the purpose of Theranos was not to make it. Anybody who talked like you did was fooling themselves because they liked the paychecks. Just like the Amazon thief.
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