Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#21

Post by thr0w4w4yy » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #16

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan I don’t necessarily disagree with the crux of your point about infrastructure. However, in the case of 5G, why do we need to “beat” other countries? What’s the rush? Great article from The Verge titled “Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G even a race?” https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/…

For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban…

5G is the absolute last thing standing in the way of self-driving cars.

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#22

Post by rayiner » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #10

valine wrote: post #3

I’m not so sure that most consumers will think “5g is a necessary function.” Without millimeter wave 5g is only slightly faster than 4g, and millimeter wave coverage will be worse than WiFi pretty much everywhere but the most densely populated regions.

With flagship phone sales plummeting, the industry hopes 5g will save them. I really don’t know anyone that has told me they want or need 5g. With current draconian data plans of just a few gb what use would 5g be to the average consumer?

> With current draconian data plans of just a few gb what use would 5g be to the average consumer?

I have no idea where this argument comes from. Was 4G useless because carriers stuck with the same data caps we had from the 3G era? Today, the average U.S. smartphone subscriber uses 6GB/month of cellular data, well below the 20GB+ soft-cap of every provider's unlimited plan: https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/10/28/heres-how-much-sma....

With 5G, those caps will go up further. Verizon isn't even applying the 22GB 4G throttling limit to 5G yet: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/13/18263593/verizon-5g-servi....

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#23

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

thr0w4w4yy wrote: post #21

rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban…

5G is the absolute last thing standing in the way of self-driving cars.

[deleted]

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#24

Post by rayiner » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

HyperTalk2 wrote: post #18

olah_1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>fake health concerns Can you explain why it is fake? Non-ionizing radiation does have an effect on us. Just because it isn't melting our organs doesn't mean that we aren't effected negatively by it. The independent research shows this, doesn't it?

Lawyers strive to become as good as possible at aggressively defending the objectively wrong opinion. He's either doing this as some sort of devil's advocate exercise or he's actually getting ready to defend 5G technology in court.

Alas, I'm just a nerd who likes radios and infrastructure, and is fed up with NIMBYs and feelers.

EDIT: regarding "who stands to gain"--consumers! It's very odd to me that I'd have to defend the technology upgrade treadmill on HN of all places. In October, Apple's going to come out with the A13 chip. Is anyone going to wonder "who benefits?" Or ask "why do we need it?" No, we'll all understand that the A12 is obsolete trash now. That's how this industry works.

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#25

Post by olah_1 » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

HyperTalk2 wrote: post #18

olah_1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>fake health concerns Can you explain why it is fake? Non-ionizing radiation does have an effect on us. Just because it isn't melting our organs doesn't mean that we aren't effected negatively by it. The independent research shows this, doesn't it?

Lawyers strive to become as good as possible at aggressively defending the objectively wrong opinion. He's either doing this as some sort of devil's advocate exercise or he's actually getting ready to defend 5G technology in court.

The question is "who stands to gain"?

I can't see 5G benefiting consumers at all. If you're on a 4G network, you already see no issues with streaming video.

Who is 5G even for? It's a solution seeking a problem.

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#26

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

olah_1 wrote: post #15

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan I don’t necessarily disagree with the crux of your point about infrastructure. However, in the case of 5G, why do we need to “beat” other countries? What’s the rush? Great article from The Verge titled “Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G even a race?” https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/…

That's all I was saying. 5G is not like other infrastructure such as roads or tunnels or fiber lines. It's a "nice to have". So why can't we do more research and prove ME wrong? I would love to be proven wrong.

Well, you can't prove that something isn't a health risk. I think the type of research that would satisfy you would take many decades.

I'm much more concerned about how 5G will impact our ability to predict hurricanes. Lives are very much at stake there.

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#27

Post by 0x64 » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #16

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan I don’t necessarily disagree with the crux of your point about infrastructure. However, in the case of 5G, why do we need to “beat” other countries? What’s the rush? Great article from The Verge titled “Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G even a race?” https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/…

For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban…

What does 5G enable that 2G, 3G, 4G, and even WiFi wouldn't have already enabled? There's huge hype for 5G enabled industrial IoT, but how is this any different from connecting the devices to WiFi or a 2G/3G/4G network? Latency is thrown around a lot, but considering the latency between my laptop (which is 8 years old, mind you) and my WiFi router is less than a millisecond, I don't see the point.

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#28

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #16

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan I don’t necessarily disagree with the crux of your point about infrastructure. However, in the case of 5G, why do we need to “beat” other countries? What’s the rush? Great article from The Verge titled “Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G even a race?” https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/…

For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban…

> For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions.

How, precisely?

5G won't be anywhere near low-latency enough to actually offload processing for these types of devices. (Not to mention, I'd really worry about what happens when a car loses connection.)

> For the other--it's embarrassing.

I appreciate your feelings, but we need to collectively get over ourselves. "Embarrassment" shouldn't be driving billion dollar decisions.

If we need to channel the emotion, let's do where the needs are explicit, like public transit.

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#29

Post by rayiner » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #28

rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban…

> For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. How, precisely? 5G won't be anywhere near low-latency enough to actually offload processing for these types of devices. (Not to mention, I'd really worry about what happens when a car loses connection.) > For the other--it's embarrassin…

> How, precisely?

In dense urban areas, 4G cell networks don't have sufficient capacity to enable large numbers of people to be using high-bandwidth services. E.g. if there is a road anomaly, such as construction, one of the solutions self-driving-car makers have invoked is a human remote driver jumping in. You can do that with a few cars on 4G, but not at scale with dozens of cars that might be simultaneously blocked by the same anomaly.

> I appreciate your feelings, but we need to collectively get over ourselves. "Embarrassment" shouldn't be driving billion dollar decisions. If you need to channel the emotion, do so with regard to things like public transit where the need is much more explicit.

Less than 5% of Americans use public transit. 96% of Americans use cell phones. Cellular is far more important than public transit.

Re: Apple will add 5G to 2020 iPhones to compete with Android, analyst says

#30

Post by judge2020 » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

0x64 wrote: post #27

rayiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban…

What does 5G enable that 2G, 3G, 4G, and even WiFi wouldn't have already enabled? There's huge hype for 5G enabled industrial IoT, but how is this any different from connecting the devices to WiFi or a 2G/3G/4G network? Latency is thrown around a lot, but considering the latency between my laptop (which is 8 years old, mind you) and my WiFi router is less than a millisecond, I don't see the point.

Haven't personally looked into it, but I've heard and seen that a big point is allowing much more devices on a network without straining the network as much. 4g at a crowded venue is generally unusable, 5g might change that.

5G will also enable smart devices to connect over cellular instead of wifi, increasing how much control the device maker has over the device and probably overall increasing connection reliability.

^Although, WiFi 6 is also aiming to solve this problem so I guess these are competing protocols at this point.

https://www.lifewire.com/5g-wireless-4155905