Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#111

Post by tehjoker » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 4:57 AM UTC

davisr wrote: post #5

I don't comment much, but I feel compelled to mention how this currently has a 36:1 vote-to-comment ratio. The kinds of thing the US military is testing on their own people is horrific, and it's our duty as American citizens to oppose this kind of surveillance. I sometimes feel I'm talking to a ghost. It is truly terrifying that my fellow Americans are selling themselves out. Ring will let the government, Amazon, and…

Maybe you already are, but if that's how you feel... organize! People must speak to each other about their problems in person, debate what is to be done, and work towards implementing it. That's politics away from the spectacle of television and social media.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#112

Post by tehjoker » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:00 AM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #44

davidw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no way to opt-out of this. I can't believe how stupid the "Hacker" "News" community is--commenting on things that don't matter, then shutting up for matters of grave importance. There are a lot of people here who take these concerns extremely seriously, and are working to fix things. But they may not post much about it on Hacker news, because not every site needs to be political, even if it's far, far more…

Surveillance isn't a political issue, or maybe rather, like drinking water standards, it need or should not be a toxic political issue.

Unfortunately, any issue where there are different groups that want different things is a political issue. Newbies to politics often feel that there are some things that transcend politics but there's a kind of dual answer to that.

The things that transcend politics are your values - the things that you will fight for and the tender feelings you ascribe to the state of the world. However, when you want to make them reality, you must find alliances and ways to pressure opposing groups to make them materialize in the real world.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#113

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:02 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #93

mgamache wrote: post #82

I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?

Lasers are the only workable option, I think. But locating a small object at some km altitude would be nontrivial. And hitting one with a laser would be ~impossible. Also, it would see scattered light long before you hit it directly. And even if it had an autonomous targeting system, there'd be a record of its movements. So it would be very hard so stay anonymous.

Atmospheric scattering seems like a big problem, but not location or targeting.

People find satellites by doing long exposures (ideally in the infrared) and then looking for movement that doesn't match the rotation of the earth - indeed, I think it's quasi-automated by now. It's rather astonishing what you can pick up with modern glass - there's videos on YouTube of the space station shot from the ground, and while it just looks like a little squiggly letter H, it's the freaking space station, in space, being imaged on relatively affordable prosumer technology.

I know nothing about the power side of lasers and imagine you'd need a decent size truck to hold one capable of setting something on fire at distance and its power supply, but it doesn't seem beyond the bounds of feasibility.

Of course, it would be 'easier' to hijack the balloon's guidance system but I assume that about 5 minutes after you started broadcasting on restricted radio frequencies people would be looking for you.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#114

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:06 AM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #44

davidw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no way to opt-out of this. I can't believe how stupid the "Hacker" "News" community is--commenting on things that don't matter, then shutting up for matters of grave importance. There are a lot of people here who take these concerns extremely seriously, and are working to fix things. But they may not post much about it on Hacker news, because not every site needs to be political, even if it's far, far more…

Surveillance isn't a political issue, or maybe rather, like drinking water standards, it need or should not be a toxic political issue.

Surveillance isn't a political issue

How could it not be

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#115

Post by andrekandre » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:06 AM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #75

throwaway94232 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already do this with the cameras that are in an increasing number of airplane seat backs.

Oh, charming: airplanes now have cameras installed against the will of the airlines operating the planes . https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3022742002

non-amp link: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2019/03/01/some-a...

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#116

Post by quickthrower2 » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:15 AM UTC

wmeredith wrote: post #87

mgamache wrote: post #82

I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?

IANAL but acts of civil disobedience usually mean that you refuse to do something peacefully. I’m not sure that there’s a way to passively disarm something.

With umbrellas and parasols. Everyone should walk around with an umbrella to make the surveillance useless. Parasols on your balcony or in your garden.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#117

Post by mirimir » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:33 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #113

mirimir wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lasers are the only workable option, I think. But locating a small object at some km altitude would be nontrivial. And hitting one with a laser would be ~impossible. Also, it would see scattered light long before you hit it directly. And even if it had an autonomous targeting system, there'd be a record of its movements. So it would be very hard so stay anonymous.

Atmospheric scattering seems like a big problem, but not location or targeting. People find satellites by doing long exposures (ideally in the infrared) and then looking for movement that doesn't match the rotation of the earth - indeed, I think it's quasi-automated by now. It's rather astonishing what you can pick up with modern glass - there's videos on YouTube of the space station shot from the ground, and while i…

OK. But small balloons at 15-20 km? That don't reflect much light? Seems iffy to me. But maybe so.

I wasn't thinking of massive physical damage. Just nuking the FPAs.

Or perhaps small rockets. But guidance systems are hugely illegal to develop. Chaff might work to mask movements temporarily. Or wildfires, I suppose. Not that anyone sane would do that.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#118

Post by craftinator » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:35 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #93

mgamache wrote: post #82

I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?

Lasers are the only workable option, I think. But locating a small object at some km altitude would be nontrivial. And hitting one with a laser would be ~impossible. Also, it would see scattered light long before you hit it directly. And even if it had an autonomous targeting system, there'd be a record of its movements. So it would be very hard so stay anonymous.

High velocity, heavy caliber hunting right with accentuated rifling, attached to a heavy servo gimble or robotic arm, telescopic lens, laser range finder. Should be able to shoot these down all day long.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#119

Post by killjoywashere » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:44 AM UTC

chocolatebunny wrote: post #20

i_am_proteus wrote: post #15

There's a bit of scaremongering in the headline; these are being tested domestically by the DOD use outside of the US. The DOD isn't allowed to conduct domestic surveillance.

Once the technology is proven out they could sell the equipment to law enforcement.

And they'll probably sell them "very lightly used" at steep discounts.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#120

Post by mirimir » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 5:48 AM UTC

craftinator wrote: post #118

mirimir wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lasers are the only workable option, I think. But locating a small object at some km altitude would be nontrivial. And hitting one with a laser would be ~impossible. Also, it would see scattered light long before you hit it directly. And even if it had an autonomous targeting system, there'd be a record of its movements. So it would be very hard so stay anonymous.

High velocity, heavy caliber hunting right with accentuated rifling, attached to a heavy servo gimble or robotic arm, telescopic lens, laser range finder. Should be able to shoot these down all day long.

A hunting rifle can reach 10-15 km altitude?